The Archers #93: The Flower and Produce show - who's going to get their just desserts. Freddie? Ellis? Russ? Pass judgement here.

[DadDadDad]

No, that's not a jokey exaggeration, this is really the 93rd thread in a series started by PseudoBadger five years ago! In fact, post number 90,000 in the "official" count will be made on this thread.

Lovers of The Archers welcome (along with the rest of us who have a more complicated relationship with the "TA" ).

One rule we try to stick to: No mentioning of future episode plotlines published in the Radio Times etc. However, once an episode has aired, say what you like!

What is going to happen to Freddie? And are we ever going to hear from Lily again?
I also am wondering what it will take for Kenton to apologise to Fallon...

NotaNotMan, according to the legal "Opinion" linked upthread if anything Freddie got away very lightly indeed. Here it is again - barristerblogger.com/2018/10/01/freddie-pargetter-got-off-lightly-he-has-no-reasonable-prospects-of-appealing-his-12-month-sentence/

... which, come to think of it, makes it very unlikely indeed that several solicitors have told Lizzie that he has good grounds for appeal as she suggested. Unless the SWs haven't bothered to check their legal facts.

I must say, there is a degree of schadenfreude in the fact that Lizzie is having to realise that this is a situation where having money and being a lady of the manor is of precisely no help whatsoever.

I'm a bit worried the centre where Freddie is will turn out to be being run by people like the G4S (?) firm, where there have been problems with mistreating inmates. Whatever the rights or wrongs of Freddie's sentence I think a civilised society should be able to punish/reform people without dehumanising and mistreating them. Elisabeth said after the first visit she'd been treated in a dehumanising way and I can't see that it's necessary. How are people going to learn anything like that? We like to think we're a civilised society. It might be the SW are going to touch on the topical issue of how prisoners are treated. I'd think Freddie is a suicide risk now.

Sorry for two civilised societies!

Elisabeth said after the first visit she'd been treated in a dehumanising way

Well to be fair, Elizabeth described having to queue and be searched as dehumanising.

I agree though that a storyline about the hideous state of G4S type units would be interesting.

Yes, it's interesting and I do agree she's generally protected. It could be she's just being precious. Her judgement re the appeal seems very off. But it could be she's picking up on something being wrong but not really identifying it clearly to herself or others, and everyone will just think she's being overly protective and annoying.

I don’t think there’s much wrong with Freddie other than the fact that he’s locked up with a load of young offenders - the vast majority of whom (if not all of them) are not from his privileged background. I think it’s hard for Elizabeth having to rub shoulders with a strata of society she never comes into contact with and picture her son locked up with them day and night. She’s naturally been a very protective mum - after Nigel’s death, when he had to leave the Cathedral school, when he failed his exams - she can offer no protection now. Freddie himself seems to be taking the best approach - keep your head down and get on with it. There are no special privileges inside - he seems to have accepted this, Elizabeth less so.

Oh dear. That scene with Brian and Jennifer was hard to listen to.

Somebody who knows about the law - no win no fee for a sentence appeal? Really? Sounds like a disaster to me.

Sounds like a disaster to me.

Lizzie is going to get the sentence increased, isn't she?
Where's Usha, can't she talk sense into her?

Really good scenes, I thought.

I was wondering, is it possible that appealing a sentence could end up with it actually being lengthened? Could the appeal judge take the view of the barrister linked above and decide that the original sentence was too lenient?

That was ghastly.

Slightly worried that Elizabeth is going to be fleeced for no good reason. Someone really needs to tell her.

Cross post R4. So it could happen?

Surely it's Freddie's decision whether to appeal the sentence or not. He's over 18.

I thought the legal advice was that the sentence was actually quite lenient for the offence.........

Thinking about it some more, are the SW talking rubbish again? 'No win, no fee' are usually suing somebody on your behalf and they take a percentage of your 'winnings'. There are no 'winnings' here so would any firm take it on? Surely this is a case of 'pay up front' because the law firm have nothing to take a lien on.
Unless they put a charge on LL

I don’t think a NWNF firm would take this up. Is this more about isolating Elizabeth maybe?

That's what I was thinking, R4. In a case like this, it would still be Elizabeth who would have to pay the lawyers even if they "won". Those kinds of lawyers are looking for big compensation claims where their percentage means presumably they expect to win some, lose some.

echt Lizzie actually said that she has made things worse

But my point,probably not well-expressedwas that this was a blip,that she really thought getting him out was still good/feasible idea, and so it has proved.

Excellent episode today, all the threads of perception and error being ravelled and unravelled.

I especially liked the silent Ben and Ruaaaaridh being alive and well on social media.

Hands up who has the same cook book as Alistair?!

The meatballs are fabulous. I hope he does the lamb for a hot date/Jim and Jazzer's Sunday dinner.

I think this is Lizzy roping people in on fools errands and then getting furious with them when they fail.

I think David already knows it's a fool's errand, and was trying to placate Lizzie.

Haven’t seen ‘ravelled’ in a long time. Wonderful ...

I did think the Brian and Jenny v Elizabeth situation escalated rather too quickly. The Aldridges usually seem to think things over before steamrollering in. But the rollover to Brookfield was satisfyingly full blooded.

Missed the cookbook (which?). Had the impression David knew his task was likely to prove impossible to perform.

Alec is that the Ottolenghi one? I’m not a fan of broad beans, but the chicken and rice dish with umpteen different spices is delicious. Such a lovely scene of father and son getting closer, isn’t it?

Somebody who knows about the law - no win no fee for a sentence appeal? Really? Sounds like a disaster to me

Can't speak authoritively as don't do criminal law and am Scots law qualified but I have never heard of no win/no fee in a criminal context. I'm not sure if it would be allowed up here.

In a civil case any one taking on no win/no fee only does so if they thought there was a good chance of winning. If this happens in England presumably would be on the same basis.

He didn't actually say, @QuaterMiss , but I knew straight away!

Yes, @impostersyndrome , it's Jerusalem by Ottolenghi. That chicken is top notch too.

I love their new found closeness. Sorry. TOGETHERNESS. Great writing and great acting.

Ottolenghi and a cryptic crossword. Flipping heck! My best Archers scene ever!