We never thought we’d feel sorry for Will. Although of course it should have been Pip! Discuss The Archers here (Titled edited by MNHQ)

[PseudoBadger]

Welcome all! I was really touched by the potential for Ed and Will to reconcile. But wonder if Will can accept Ed’s support.

As ever, no spoilers here (there’s a thread for that) - discussion permitted as soon as the pm episode is broadcast.

Well in RL farming families actually DO rely on the next generation to carry on the farm (hence Helen remaining) They do tend to more rooted I suppose.

Urbanites not so much.

I do actually know more than one woman living in Jenny’s situation (with regard to Ruairi). But they’re not amongst the landed gentry of England.

I know no-one who has willingly moved back to a village where she was publicly jilted at the altar by the son of that village’s most prominent family. Nor any woman who still insists on living metres away from another woman who ‘stole’ her two most significant life partners.

But perhaps the writers do?

Oh ppeat - I was thinking how great Gruach's analysis of the Shula-Usha dynamic was. What a diverse world we live in! I disagree that the portrayal of her plight is misogynistic, however: I think the slow accumulation of error, limited awareness, pride, egoism has brought her to where she is. It's a character and plot development that wouldn't be out of place in Trollope or Eliot, and the fact that it's taken place over decades is one of its strengths, as Gruach says. It's like the writers have agreed to show the limiting, constraining and distorting effects of a rooted, parochial life on an individual.

Talking of Cathy, when was the last time she was even mentioned?

When there was a woman vicar (Janet?) did something happen between Shula and Janet's husband - something to do with someone giving someone a scarf? Or am I completely misremembering?

Oh god - now I have to spend the rest of the day trying to work out if Trollope was misogynistic or not. (I don’t think so. I’ve always adored his female characters - but there’s no doubt they had to practise wisdom through stealth.) And I do rather need to believe in Eliot ...

So ... yeah ...

But isn’t it arguable that a story like TA demands an element of misogyny? There have to be complex female characters in Ambridge (otherwise it would be a ghost town obvs,) - but any native woman with gumption leaves - like Brenda. So they write thrills and spills for women who are not allowed to escape. (Even Philip has commented on Kirsty’s lost potential!)

I was completely misremembering. Janet went off with Tim who was married to Siobhan who had Ruaraidh with Brian - nothing to do with Shula

Shuls didn't like having a woman vicar though, iirc. Did she go elsewhere to worship at the time? I know Peggy did.

Well...it's more that I don't think the portrayal of a female character finding herself in a cage of her own devising is misogynistic. Women are as much moral agents as men, surely? THere are female characters in TA who face up to the consequences of their decisions - Emma and Clarrie square up to their financial struggles and a life of hard work as a consequence of their love for men who aren't the greatest providers, for example. Shula's smothered any possibility of self-awareness in her histrionic faux-moralism and her insistence on herself as a good person, with excellent intentions, who deserves approval and admiration. But that portrayal isn't, of itself, misogynist, surely?

If my local Vicar married a Hindu it wouldn't be just one person who commented. And probably not just one person who left to worship elsewhere.

To which I'd say good riddance.

Can't bear Shula, she's awful.

I don't agree that it takes gumption to LEAVE a farming community. It's a cliche but everyone is different and some people LIKE a quiet life, with familial support, where they can get on with the vital business of farming (esp. organic farming). I know I would if I had the opportunity.

There is quite a lot of sneering at country life on this thread which is as bad as misogyny in my book.

In fact I think it would be more surprising in Shula had upped and left Ambridge. She didn't exactly have a dazzling academic career, got a job with Rodways and married Mark who worked locally, bought the stables off her Aunt and then built a business in the village. I don't think she's been limited by that - she's actually done rather well. She has a business so successful that it has survived her husband's compulsive gambling, she managed to put her life together again after being widowed at a very young age - she was born to that life, but she has also made it her life.

I agree with Peartree that hers is a cage of her own devising Shula's smothered any possibility of self-awareness in her histrionic faux-moralism and her insistence on herself as a good person, with excellent intentions, who deserves approval and admiration. An excellent summary.

She has a business so successful that it has survived her husband's compulsive gambling, she managed to put her life together again after being widowed at a very young age

Yes true, although she didn't start with nothing. She inherited a house from Doris, Mark was well insured, shares and some income from Brookfield. Plus the business was already established and she got a preferential price because she was family.

It was the inheritance/insurance which enabled her to buy out Aunty Chris without a mortgage. The mortgage was taken out to pay off Alastairs gambling debts.

I'm also intrigued though by a riding stables which apparently generates a significant income.

I will be really cross if they do a murder + suicide with Poppy and Will.
Because men who murder their children usually do it to punish the mother when she tries to escape from an abusive relationship.

Not out of genuine grief following a good marriage.

There is quite a lot of sneering at country life on this thread

In which sense? Shula's inability to move away from home is a reflection of her rather than the countryside. There are Shulas in towns and country.

choccyp1g

I agree entirely although I don't think they will do that. I was trying to remember if a child has been killed off in TA and I can't think of anyone younger than John, who was in his 20s.

“There is quite a lot of sneering at country life on this thread which is as bad as misogyny in my book.”

Good lord, really? Must have missed it!

Oh, I’d be saying the same about people in small towns or anywhere with limited potential for expanding youthful ambition. It’s just a fact that bright people who want to get on (and lacking a profitable family farm) generally feel the urge to get out at some point and try their luck elsewhere. Maybe they return, maybe they don’t.

Fewer people seem to do that in Ambridge (because if all the ‘bright’, thrusting, ambitious characters left it would be a very dull show).

(Have completely forgotten whatever point I was attempting to make. )

For myself I like a combination of extreme isolation (where I can’t see my neighbours) and a fast car or train to the smoke.

Oh! Oh! Was reading ‘The Tiger in the Smoke’ yesterday. (Margery Allingham. Superb.) There was mention of a poorly remembered dying declaration. I thought of you all ...

Have just spent 15 minutes looking for my copy of Tiger in the Smoke...
Now have faint memories of lending it to someone. But who? I need GPS tracking on my books.

They were talking about the Tiger in the Smoke on A Good Read recently. I must go hunting too....

Glorious book. I heard an excellent dramatisation of it on R4, could easily have been 30+ years ago, sigh.

GPS on lent books? That would be a Day Of Reckoning indeed.

I still remember The Forsyte Saga on TV in 1967 ... (I was little. But still. Epic sigh.) When there was a new production on the radio a couple of years ago I was able to supply my own visuals.

(May have mentioned this before ...)

Will have to find the Good Read episode on iPlayer.