We never thought we’d feel sorry for Will. Although of course it should have been Pip! Discuss The Archers here (Titled edited by MNHQ)

[PseudoBadger]

Welcome all! I was really touched by the potential for Ed and Will to reconcile. But wonder if Will can accept Ed’s support.

As ever, no spoilers here (there’s a thread for that) - discussion permitted as soon as the pm episode is broadcast.

I remember Shula's reaction to that statue: "Alan's implying that Shula's spirituality is as important as his, and I just don't think it is." It stuck with me as it is the very definition of discrimination on cultural, religious and - in the context - racial grounds, and the story line had her go unchallenged on it. It's very weird.

Shula has tried to do the right thing and stand by her man

When she shagged Usha's then partner Dr Locke? I don't believe for one minute she would have been so bothered by that statue if she wasn't so envious of Usha's relationship with Alan (whom she also made a play for in a down key way and regarded as "hers").

Interesting that we don't know WHICH statue it is! (I did say I didn't know) R4

she also made a play for in a down key way and regarded as "hers"

I think that she idealises men. Her type seems to be professional helpers - the solicitor, the doctor, the vicar, the vet. I might even manage to squeeze kennel-mending Philip in there, too. And it explains why Nigel was not in the running.
She confuses and conflates the professional and the personal.

I think i was a Ganesh. She was absolutely disgusting about that and like others, I don't understand why she wasn't called out on it.

It was particularly outrageous of Shula to accuse Alistair of not being prepared to compromise over the Gap Year thing when he offered precisely that, i.e. for her to go without him. If anyone wasn't prepared to compromise, it was Shula.

She also seems to have conveniently forgotten that he completely changed his life plans to enable her to pursue her Master of the Hunt ambitions.

It's interesting that Shula ought to elicit sympathy on a cursory reading of her situation - her struggle with infertility, the death of her first husband, as the mother of a sick child and the wife of a compulsive gambler - and yet it is her insufferable smugness that over-shadows everything. I think she has suffered from being cast as 'the sensible one' in comparison to her twin brother and her little sister and she has inhabited that role in the face of all temptations that have come her way. She tries to dress everything up as doing the right thing even when she's not doing the right thing and as a consequence has never been very honest with herself about her own motives and about what she really wants from her life. Suddenly she is 60, her best friend has died, her son has joined the army never be seen again and she's beginning to take stock and not liking what she sees. And still our sympathies lie with her husband - who is hardly more attractive as a character, but has us feeling sorry for him because he's been married to her for all these years.

I’m not a practising Christian but I’m trying to imagine someone placing a statue of the Virgin Mary in part of a building strongly associated with another non-Christian religion and I think most people would think it was a little insensitive unless the congregation were known for being very liberal and tolerant.

I'm not a Christian either, but my understanding (from friends of various faiths) is that churches/mosques/synagogues/temples actively foster mutual understanding and respect for each others' beliefs, observations and symbols. So our neighbours, the vicar and his trainee vicar wife spend time at the local synagogue and mosque and have been given a menorah (spelling? sorry) which they light to welcome their Jewish friends around. They see this as an attempt to mend what they describe as 'brokenness' in the world. Alan's displaying of Ganesh or similar statue to demonstrate that he, and by extension, his parish was enriched by the faith of his wife, could be read as emerging from a similar attempt. Unless, of course, you are a racist bigot, as Shula was portrayed in her reaction. And no-one said, "er...'ave a word with yourself, you muppet." The nearest we got was Usha calling her out, in private, and Shula storming off, "How dare you!" - no acknowledgement of her failings or blind spots at all, so far as I remember.

'Nuff theology - time to hoover upstairs!

No, the statue was Shiva the destroyer and there was a lovely ongoing discussion at the time about understanding Christian / Hindu faiths together. They talked about the meaning of Shiva, destruction, etc. Family members are Hindu so I remember this one very well.

Oh, and the vicarage is not seen as public property, so if the vicar and partner want to have a religious figure from another faith tradition, that’s their call. Not appropriate for Shula to complain about what they do in their own house.

Sorry but I would find it odd to go into the Vicarage and find a Hindu statue there. Vicarages aren't purely private space but have offices there and often host meetings.
I have been in a Vicarage which had some very interesting wall hangings depicting bible stories with the people being Indians.
But I also don't know a single Vicar (or know of one, although the BBC said there were some) who is married to a Hindu. And I know a lot of Vicars and other clergy.
Yes there is a lot of conversation between religions, and installation of Bishops are attended by other local religious leaders etc. And a lot of Vicars will have the Korean and other religious teachings and might even have Jewish religious symbols.

If my local Vicar married a Hindu it wouldn't be just one person who commented. And probably not just one person who left to worship elsewhere.

Well that was weird.When is this funeral planned for anyway? I assume the LSWs are lining Will up for some breakdown but we have already had gamekeeper in traumatic breakdown

I think William will go to the funeral - with or without Poppy. He’s terrified of breaking down in front of everyone (particularly Poppy) - his grumpiness and general ungraciousness is masking his grief and keeping it at arms length at the moment. He softened for a minute there when he was talking to Emma about Nic’s favourite song, but soon snapped back into defensive mode.
Re the vicar being married to a Hindu I think it isn’t a problem because Usha isn’t exactly devout. It’s a religion she was born into -in the same way that many people in Britain give their religion as C of E when required on forms, but never go to church (except perhaps to a carol service at Christmas). Personally I would have thought it is better for a vicar to be married to someone who at least has some notion of spirituality rather than an out and out atheist. Shula’s objection to Alan marrying Usha was so much more complicated than the mere fact that she was a Hindu - her being a Hindu was a convenient focus of her disappointment.

Please tell me it's going to be a turning up for the funeral at the last minute storyline, not a much much darker one? The thought of William and Poppy on their own all day.............

Shula’s objection to Alan marrying Usha was so much more complicated than the mere fact that she was a Hindu - her being a Hindu was a convenient focus of her disappointment.

Indeed. I’ve always read Shula’s hostility to Usha as 50% hangover from the kneejerk jealousy she portrayed when Mark first took Usha on as a partner, and 50% guilt over her own unforgivable and decidedly unchristian betrayal of Usha through Doc Locke all those years ago.

To me Shula’s eternally hangdog air is one of the (few) things they’ve done really well over decades. On top of not being fun enough for Nigel and her legitimate grief over Mark she must have been shaped (distorted) by continuing to live in the same village as someone she wronged so badly - particularly someone who has such a visible role in the community as a “good” person. Not just romantically but spiritually Usha is the person Shula has failed to be.

But then TASWAMA - so they force women to go on living in situations of extreme humiliation. (Though also Will!)

Spot on Gruach - and I would add to that that in marrying the vicar Usha put herself right in the centre of Shula’s world making it much harder for Shula to park her unchristian behaviour in a lay-by and make herself feel better about it by throwing herself into the church and it’s activities.

Sorry Gruach but that is rubbish, Shula has the CHOICE to live and work in AMB. she is hardly in an ignominious position of humiliation. She owns a successful stables and is MOH. fgs. She is not, like some women ,'expected' to cover up or whatever. No one forces anyone to go to church etc.

The thought of William and Poppy on their own all day.............

Yes that was exactly my thought when I heard it - but another gamekeeper suicide, this time with a child would be a bit much wouldn't it?

What would happen to the estate if Will died within a month of Nic? He hasn't adopted Jake and Mia but they may have had a will which talked only about "the children"

No one forces anyone to go to church, but for Shula it is an essential part of who she is and how she thinks about herself. Shula is Ambridge born and bred - it is printed through her like a stick of rock - she is an Archer (I love the way Joe always refers to her as Shula Archer). Her business is there, everything about her life is woven into the fabric of that community and St. Stephens is a big part of that. Usha is essentially an incomer - and she has managed to implant herself right at the heart of all that Shula holds dear. A constant reminder of an episode Shula would rather have put behind her and forgotten about in a flurry of bell ringing and church warden duties. Shula can never leave Ambridge - she is literally rooted there (in contrast to her twin) - that was why she didn’t go to Manchester with Dr Lock.

No one forces anyone to go to church, but for Shula it is an essential part of who she is and how she thinks about herself.

But she doesn't have to go to St Stephens. She stomped off and took her custom to the cathedral after Usha moved into the vicarage.

Shula also seems to make more money out of the stables than any horsy establishment I have ever had anything to do with.....

I can't remember her coming back to St Stephen's-when did that happen?

I can't remember her coming back to St Stephen's-when did that happen?

I don't think she ever has, other than for special events or if taking Jill/Peggy et al.

Unless the LSWs have forgotten she left but I can't recall hearing of her being a regular at St Stephens again

But, ppeatfruit I was talking about Shula as a character constructed by the TA writing team ...

They do put women (particularly) in situations that no-one with choices would entertain in RL. Kirsty? Jennifer? And I don’t honestly believe either the silent Kathy or even Helen would have stayed after their own domestic misfortunes - in RL.