The Archers - What’s your poison? Alice is legless, the fish are lifeless and Pip is clueless (Discussion #85)

[DadDadDad]

Even if you don't have a leg(?), a life or a clue, Welcome to the first ever 85th Archers thread!

Wild speculation and sensible questions always welcome - especially any newcomers.

A little game for the weekend, inspired by Timetogetup0630 and Gruach on the last thread:

Invent an explanation for how your username was the inspiration for an Archers storyline, character, etc - be creative!

My username is telling the story of Toby, Adam and Ian, although it probably needs some punctuation: Dad! Dad/Dad?

dairyfarmerswife - bit too easy for you, but as professional country folk maybe you could judge the winner?

Credit to MrsGrindah for the clever thread title

I thought they could at least have had a face-to-face discussion about it though, rather than over the phne.

*phone

I thought it was a good episode tonight. Will telling Nic that it didn't really matter that she didn't have her job any more was excellently done. Peggy brandishing her metaphorical horsewhip was marvellous!

On the grammatical point, it's very bad on Masterchef. 'The critics have told John and I what they thought...'

My theory is, as suggested above, people have it drummed into them that it is incorrect to say 'Me and Gregg are off now' but they don't understand why. They think that 'me' is always wrong in a phrase involving 'and'.

On the grammar, l think your theory is probably exactly right, GaspOde. I don‘t doubt that having had to understand grammar for foreign language learning has helped my English grammar.

If Jolene is really sacking Emma in this way, she's spineless and has shown an unpleasant side to her character. She is as out of order as a manager as Nic was to Emma. Also she should not have had Nic ring her get the sack, but continued to ring Nic until they could speak. Talk about rubbing salt into the would. It's just possible that it's clumsy SW line so she can ring back later with more shifts.

About the use of "I", it's like disease in here in Au, where I routinely hear teachers say, "Get in touch with X or I about it".

I thought there were shades of Rob in Will tonight - the whole you don't need the job, Poppy misses you ...

Will is very creepy. He wooed Nic when she was a vulnerable single mum with 2 little ones and a useless ex. After they got married Will tried very hard to stop her getting a job at The Bull so his reaction doesn't surprise me.

Everyone is behaving in a ridiculous manner in the Nic/Emma storyline. Surely Jolene would have held Fallon responsible and no one else. Emma thought the idea had been ditched by the Bull and it was going spare so I have no idea why she is having fingers wagged at her. Nic would never have said anything like the things that she said during the row to Emma, totally unlike her even with the vile Will’s goading. I wouldn’t speak to my worst enemy like that and if I was Emma I’d never speak to her again. And Jolene would never have sacked Nic over the phone.

Nic did seem to be using the job as a way of getting some power into her life - Alice’s “drink”and Emma,s pork scratchings. I hope she finds a more positive outlet. I gather there’s a manager position going with one of her husband’s employers extended family....

Though Susan Carter may be better suited...

Yeah, Will is a sexist, controlling twunt. Loads for Emma to be jealous of there, Nic.

Wanting all Ambridge characters to talk proper, reminds me of something JennyDarling would say 😂.

Perhaps you think they should also respect their elders, and, yes, I'm going to say it, betters.

Nursery Rhymes: ........’and put it in the oven for baby and me’. That’s ‘and me’ it sets a precedent.

I thought there were shades of Rob in Will tonight - the whole you don't need the job, Poppy misses you ...

Yes, he was Rob before Rob was Rob

He didn't want her working & then when he couldn't stop her he sat at the bar glaring at any man she served & telling everyone in the pub "we're a faaaaaaaaahm - ly we are" - very proprietorial & unpleasant

He didn't want her to have a social life without him either though would occasionally let her go to the WI with Clarrie

I thought at the time they were building this up to be an abusive relationship, but then they brought in Rob instead, presumably because they could get rid of Rob but not a central character like one of the Grundys

One of the things I liked about Nic was the way she seemed to be able to deal with Will & not give in to his possessive controlling tendencies, but strike out & do her own thing - the loss of her job, while well deserved, is very sad from that perspective.......... are they building up to a whole tables are turned thing - if Brian goes under then Will could lose his job - then Ed & Emma will be the ones doing OK? I hope not - a bit melodramatic.

Ed is working for Brian too though, isn't he?

Nursery Rhymes: ........’and put it in the oven for baby and me’. That’s ‘and me’ it sets a precedent

That is correct usage. You wouldn't say "Put it in the oven for I". Actually Bert Fry might say that.

Me an de Baby are going to put it in the oven- wrong.

Put it in the oven for baby and me. Correct.

Or was that your point Mini that kids learn correct usage in the nursery rhyme?

Me and baby, not me an de baby! (Though that’s wrong too...)

I suppose I am saying that before we learn about grammar, there is common usage, and colloquial ways of speaking that become our norm. I blather on, and never give a thought to grammar. Where I live, I speak a different dialect to the locals and I find it difficult to understand the lingo sometimes. It is a bit Burt Fry, ‘ I does’.

"Today 03:52 Minimammoth

"Nursery Rhymes: ........’and put it in the oven for baby and me’. That’s ‘and me’ it sets a precedent."

But that's right!

Oh dear. Yes. I’m saying it’s easy to transfer an ‘ and me, or ‘me and ‘ phrase into any spoken statement and not give a thought to whether it is correct grammar. I am running away now, to hide in the culvert.

I remember a conversation when Will was gloating over Ed's latest misfortune and Ed responded, "I really hope that you hit trouble some time and then we'll see how you manage.' Perhaps this is the beginning of that trouble?

But it would take a fair bit of reversal: Will might not earn a huge amount as gamekeeper (how big is the shoot? does he have staff under him? according to the internet, he'd likely be on around £15-17k plus tips. And he gets a house and vehicle thrown in) but he has the income from the cottage. Did he buy that outright or get a mortgage? It's not a huge income on which to keep 5 people though. Or do they have 4 kids (Nic had 2 with ex, and there's George - did they have another baby?) so 6 people. And if they lost the gamekeeper house, and had to move into the cottage, would there be a mortgage to pay on it?

Anyway, he's not an investment banker, is he? and if he prefers to splash the cash on expensive presents to rub Emmur's nose in it rather than save for a rainy day, I suppose financial problems could be on the horizon. But more likely Nic getting depressed now she hasn't an outlet in work.

I have a question, pre Emma running off with Ed, what was Will like? Was he always a bit of a bully or was he nice but the situation turned him bitter and vengeful?

IIRC Will was always jealous of Ed. I do remember Clarrie saying that Eddie and his brother\Alf? were the same.

Beatrix English colloquial usage is not set in stone. It changes, that's natural and normal. I don't get why people get their kickers in a twist about it, there many more things to get upset about!

DM aways says when someone on the telly says he's 'afraid' about something trivial. "No he's not afraid he's sorry!".

Get over it Mum!

Ppeat, my knickers are not in a twist. I cannot of course judge yours or anyone else‘s. There is colloquial English and there is wrong English. Some usages are just plain wrong.

I did want to say l noticed the example l gave did not demonstrate the erreur l was complaining about. Hahaha, l should never post when tired. Which means not posting at all after about 2 pm. Oh well.

I imagine if Will loses his job due to Brine‘s problems, Will will get to stay in the tied cottage until Tom and Johnny have had their notice period in No 1 the Green. Not a massive house for 4 growing children but l think Will did buy outright. If Brine gets rid of his gamekeeper bc he no longer needs a gamekeeper, then there won‘t be another waiting to move in. Presumably if Brine does time, though, the business can be run to an extent by Adam. Of course it could all go under and that would be different.

My memory of Will when he and Emma were first stepping out together was of Will being definitely the duller brother. He‘s never been particularly clever whereas Ed does at least have flashes of wit. I‘ve always felt Emma very much settled for the safer brother, and certainly the one her parents approved of. Especially after the car accident. I don’t think Soosan and Neil ever believed that Ed swerved to avoid a deer and that‘s why he crashed.