Quelle surprise! Rob hasn't FOTTFSOF and is in fact hiding in the bushes at Henwee's school. Discuss the latest unlikely Archers events here.

[PseudoBadger]

What do we want?
Realistic storylines!
When do we want them?
As soon as the writers see this!

Mystic Vango!

Yes Vango, you're very clever *pats head calmingly

Enjoy Amadeus Enoch. We saw it on Thursday and it was excellent.

MrsArthur not that brave, hence why running away from thread after saying it.

I'll let you know if Rob turns up in my bush hedge.

Well, it looks like I've encouraged a good few Lillian disapprovers out of the shadows!

Fink - I'm a Christian, so I also come from the "adultery is wrong" angle, but even if that terminology is old-fashioned to some, surely marriage vows to enter an exclusive relationship with one person should be taken seriously - as well as the hurt now or in the future to Miranda.

Just read glowfrog's comment and the Christian moral high ground takers and am now cheering Justin and Lilian on.

I believe there is an encore screening of Amadeus on Feb 21st.

And I hate the Justin/Miranda/Lillian storyline too. So grimy and unpleasant

I'm not band wagon jumping. I said similar ages ago.

Don't need to be a Xian, or indeed adhere to any religion, to find lying and sexual infidelity utter crap behaviour. As the great Philip Roth said in (I think) I married a communist, 'If the fidelity in marriage is not what excites you, you have no business being married." Slack Alice/Fag Ash Lil needs someone to tell her, "your behaviour is seedy, mean and you are making yourself sad and ridiculous. Have some fucking dignity, and stop being such a slack cow." Someone needs to tell Justin the same thing, of course, but he's such an arrogant shit that he wouldn't even hear it. Whereas Lilian does have some vestige of kindness and fellow-feeling, and would possibly listen.

I know nothing about vet practices, but is Anisha's list an "all or nothing"? Couldn't they agree that one item is the main priority and get that? Is there a reason that all the items have to be bought in one fell swoop?

Just read glowfrog's comment and the Christian moral high ground takers and am now cheering Justin and Lilian on.

Bert ...

Must admit, the intermittently joyful portrayal of old people doing it is the main reason why I'm finding it hard to conjure up much disapproval for Lilian and Justin.

I have wondered why Justin and Miranda don't just divorce, since they seem neither to like nor respect one another. Their marriage does seem more like an ongoing business arrangement which would be complicated and costly to dismantle. So, moral outrage doesn't really seem worth the effort. (Particularly since there's no doubt Miranda must be entertaining a fit young ski instructor or two ...)

And I want Lilian to have everything she wants. (Because she's older than me and one must look to the future ...)

Have just listened and have a horrible feeling that we are meant to take Toby's story on good faith. Ugh. He is being reformed by the love of a good woman and the morally restorative powers of village living. I really hate the script writers at the moment.

As for Lillian getting everything she wants - I think she knows the affair is the shitty end of the stick, and that as soon as Miranda gets suspicious again, or for whatever reason that suits him, Justin will drop her unceremoniously. It's hardly a model of happiness and fulfilment for the rest of us! Agree that the marriage is pretty disheartening as well.

I'm not sure I get the "moral highground" criticisms. I've not seen anyone trying to be morally superior because they would never do what L & J are doing. As I implied, you don't need to have the Christian belief in the wrongness of adultery, to agree that infidelity and deceit is bad, and that there is a foreseeable possibility of Miranda being hurt.

Either you agree that L&J are doing is wrong or not, and in doing so you are making a moral position. If all you mean by moral highground is taking a position where you say it's wrong, then it's not just Christians taking the moral highground.

And if you agree that L&J are doing wrong, why would you cheer them on, even if you disagree with the moral reasoning of others who also disapprove.

Can I draw a parallel here - I know they are different generations - with Apple Tree Yard? Differences aside it felt like one week the media was full of "hooray, finally a middle aged woman enjoying sex" and then the episode actually airs and she gets violently raped and it seems like a punishment impliedly. Whereas Lillian and Justin, while they aren't doing something entirely morally right, are at least seizing the day with great happiness and trying not to hurt Miranda, who seems horrible (although nobody deserves their spouse to have an affair).

I've got absolutely no problem with Lillian having a sex-life! I'd prefer it if she wasn't having an affair with a married man. That's all. At least Matt finally divorced Yvette - I didn't like the sneaking around/asset hiding back then either.

It's got nothing to do with Christianity or the moral high ground. There are some who think cheating on a spouse is ok if it's a 'bit of a giggle' and there are some who don't. I'm in the latter camp.

Snap, Vango! If we take the word 'marriage' out and replace it with 'long-term commited relationship' would that make it better, Bertrand? Most of us expect exclusivity, even if we've not taken vows about it or even discussed it. It's a given unless you explicitly tell your partner that you want an open relationship, surely?

the world is full of middle-aged and indeed, old, women enjoying sex and we don't need the BBC to give us permission! I've been watching Apple Tree Yard - and my reading of it is that the outdoor sex was not really her thing, but she was curious and going along with it because she's fascinated by her lover and the feelings he awakens in her. It's the rebellious, risky aspect that's exciting, not the sex itself. She's happier fucking in a proper bed. She says as much in episode 1. The rape isn't punishment, it's a random, horrible act of violence from a degenerate she works with but decisions she's made earlier dictate the decisions she makes from that point on. And not simply about the affair - about her role as a mother, her son's illness, her pride in her work and desire not to be seen as a victim. I think it's a brilliant portrayal of why a woman would not report rape and decide it would be better to try and move on with her life.

Look, I watch way too much TV, and listen to too much crap radio. And spend too much time on here!

I'm with Gruach on this one, on the whole. IRL my default position is that affairs are generally a bad idea, because of the damage and hurt they can cause. But in this case - apart from (shh, here's the real heresy) it being fiction, it doesn't seem like there would be deep hurt. Miranda's position seems to be all about status and possessiveness.

Yes. Me too. I was just incensed by the poster(s) who suggested that you only think like that if you were a Christian.

Bert after I left that comment I made a bet with myself that you would not approve.

I now owe myself a million pounds.

Bertrand - I'm really struggling to see where anyone suggested that only Christians think like this (ie disapprove of marital infidelity). As far as I can see the comments made by Fink and me imply the reverse, saying that while we come at it from a Christian morality, it's clear many others also disapprove on the grounds of betraying the commitment made in a monogamous relationship, so you don't need to be a Christian to agree.

I find it repugnant that you were willing to "switch sides" morally as soon as you learnt a certain religious group was on the same "side" as you.

Do you feel the same way about black people having sex? Or people with disabilities? Or is ageism your only prejudice?

Only old people. And myself.