There's a slow hand clap for Knob. Will there be one for Toby? Discuss The Archers here.

[PseudoBadger]

Sorry for the poor title - the end of the last thread has arrived sooner than I thought and I haven't had the benefit of hearing all of the last 2 nights....

Excellent delurk AuldAlliance.Something I absolutely love about this thread is that there are lurkers happy to follow on silently, but unable to allow a schoolboy error such as attributing Bartleby to Dickens to slip through. I myself am quite astonished that so many people didn't even realise Bartleby was pony up to this point. I've always found him such a clearly defined character - far easier to picture for instance than telling Toby from Rex.
I also love this observation from Antiboop which I think goes a long way to explaining Jill's position I think it can be hard for people that age who aren't seen as a person as their spouse would see them but as a carer (mother/grandmother etc) Pip is awful - rude, entitled and totally self-absorbed. I thought the whole scene was slightly contrived though in order to move Toby into Rickyard (my favourite image of the editor with a long stick and map of the village moving the characters around like an army commander). It was also the classic illustration of keeping mum about you children's (or in this case grandchildren's) relationships for fear of pushing them closer together.

80g per person dry weight is a gigantic serving, especially with a rich ragu. You shouldn't do much more than 30-40g per person. This, my friends, is why we have a carb-driven obesity crisis...well, not the only reason, obviously, but inflated portion size is an ishoo.

Echo everything that is said about Pip's dull character and wretched acting. Why do Ambridge off-spring never want to leave? Debbie and Kate's departures are presented as signs of deviance/reactions to parental waywardness, rather than normal stuff that grown children do. I suppose we'd be left with an aging Ambridge population otherwise though.

Jill didn't half pick a stupid battle though. A bit of cake! She should have just smiled tightly, which is what this frankly rather boring mouse of a woman usually does. Jealous of Grace indeed! Are we supposed to believe Grace is Rebecca? And, quite honestly, if Pip is spoiled and lives buck-shee at Rickyard, that's up to David and Ruth, innit? Her grandmother needn't connive at it by doing Pip's chores (if that's what happens), but since she's been happy to indulge both her children and grandchildren to satisfy her own desire to feel needed, she can hardly complain now. She sunk low and Pip followed her. They deserve each other! Doubtless ToeBee will turn out a baddy, Pip will cry, Jill will be justified and there will be reconciliation. Do I care? not much.

30g of pasta as a main meal for people doing physical work? Don't be ridiculous!

Who was/ Rex and Toby's mum? Might she have got pregnant by David in which case there is an incest issue? Seems odd David isn't more bothered in that case, or maybe David's father was really a fair brother. The SWs are hamming up this story so much there must be more to it
Can anyone explain why Shula wants to be hunt master/mistress? It sounds an expensive hassle to me and not worth your husband losing his own business and becoming an employee for

off at Haymarket' from other places, mostly in England.

I've heard that one too. Despite living in Scotland, I spent my childhood in the English West Midlands where the expression was 'getting off the New St train at Aston.' Although Duddeston rather than Aston is the last stop before New St station. I'm not sure if this implies Brummies are rather more cautious in such matters.

The other expression that sticks in my mind is 'Round the back of Rackhams' which was a department store in Birmingham behind which prostitutes used to ply their trade. My Gran would say of women she considered dressed in a flashy or gaudy manner: 'she's looks like she's off round the back of Rackhams' or women would be short of money would declare 'they'll be round the back of Rackhams' before the end of the month.

1oz per person is pathetic. No wonder there are threads where people say they are hungry after pasta. We usually have it with a coating sauce rather than ragu and accompany it with salad. 4oz each. We do a lot of running and cycling though

DRIED weight of pasta - swells up when cooked. Plus the sauce. Don't be greedy.

Blimey, Joe's fit... Alistair wanted to see Bartleby trotting so we heard, clippity- clop noises which means Joe would have had to be jogging alongside him - presumably to the end of the yard and back.

And he wasn't even out of breath!

30g dried weight of pasta as a main meal for people doing physical work is ridiculous. Don't be silly.

Actually it's ridiculous for people not doing physical work!

THIS.....is what you have all made me do this morning 😁

I know it swells up I cook it several times a week. It's not greedy if you're cycling 40 miles the next day or not eating much with it and it is your main meal. Neither of us is overweight and we rarely do puddings

No need to be defensive. Most people are not cycling 40 miles a day, or digging turnips, but walking from home to train station to office and do not need to be carb-loading like an Olympic rower. Actually, I was at my heaviest when carb-loading for rowing. Completely unnecessary and not the sports nutrition advice ladled out nowadays. Smaller helpings for lives where calories are easily come by and expended only by making extra efforts will keep more people at a healthy weight. 80g of dried pasta per person is too much. My husband's expanding middle-aged waistline is testament to that, as would mine be if I let it.

Oh, ffs. 80g of pasta is not carb loading for a woman who has been doing hard physical work all day.

I too am starting to wonder about an incest aspect to this. Is it possible that Jill had a fling with Robin F and has reason to doubt David's paternity? That would make Toby Pip's uncle.
SOC's tasteless attempt at leaving us with a ticking time bomb, as if Rob's continuing presence isn't enough?

I was wondering that. Has anybody in the past ever said anything about David looking like K,S and L? How alike they are as a family or something?

"Oh Oedipus Shmeeidipus as long as you love yer mother"

I didn't start listening until the very early 80s, but as a fully paid up TA obsessive I have wasted years of my life poring over browsed through various TA books and encyclopaedias. I am as certain as I can possibly be that there can't be an incest storyline without totally rewriting the Fairbrother and Archer family history (OK, that won't necessarily stop them doing it ).

Robin Fairbrother did not appear in Ambridge between leaving the village as a small boy when his family moved after Grace's death (he was Grace's much younger half-brother, born in 1953, so about 6 years older than David) and re-appearing in 1987 as a grown man when he had a fling with Elizabeth, until she learned that he was already married. Jill would have known him as a tiny boy because she married Phil in 1957 and the Fairbrothers left in 1959. Kenton and Shula were born in 1958 and David in 1959. It is just about possible that newly-married Jill could have had an affair with her husband's much older and fairly recently married ex-fil, but frankly it's ludicrous.

BBC article about the Fairbrothers here - beware, it has actor pictures. (To me, Toby looks nothing like he sounds, but Rex is spot on.)

Timeline stuff here too, also on the BBC website

My 12 year old has 300g of cooked pasta on average. Not sure what that equates too uncooked. I do weigh it as dc has type one diabetes and we carb count. I am assuming 80g would be a teeny portion for a farmer.

God I loathe Pip.

I can't believe people on here are speculating that Jill doesn't like Toby because of some sort of incest intrigue? Are you the same people who thought Bartleby was a ferret? She doesn't like him because he's a wrong 'un. And we all know that - he's got a dark secret in Brighton, he is totally unreliable, he'd sell his own brother if he thought there was something in it for him. He's one of life's nasty charmers and Jill can see that because she has a bit of life experience and she knew Toby's father. So when she says he's just like his dad she knows what she is talking about - Pip hasn't got a clue because she never knew Simon Fairbrother and has appalling judgement anyway. Jill is frustrated that no one will listen to her and everyone thinks she's getting it all out of proportion. That's why she's quick to jump on every slip up by Toby (including chutney-gate). I think the storyline is being handled badly - that their final bust up was over cake is hard to swallow since she is usually forcing cake on all and sundry, but Jill will be proved right in the end and we all know that. Not because of any incestuous link, but because Toby has another woman and possibly child in Brighton.

Pip just can't cope because for once someone isn't rolling over and agreeing with her.

I still think she was and is so mean about Josh who is clearly a lot brighter than her.

I would quite like her to end up with Toby mucking out geese and surviving on pennies whilst Josh becomes a farming billionaire

Exactly Lilian

Also 'chutney gate' was performed by Pip AND Toby not Toby alone

What, if anything, do we know about Rex and Toby's mum? Was she Robin's wife at the time of his affair with Elizabeth?

And, if yes, do the Fairbros know that Pip's Auntie Elizabeth was having an affair with their Dad whilst married to their Mum? No wonder their presence feels awkward for Jill.

I'd like to delurk more often, but as I live in France (though I am indeed Scottish...) I can't always listen to TA live and by the time I get geared up to post the thread is already moving on.

After SOC's stint, I'm never sure whether events in TA are just mundane everyday life trundling along, or are inevitably filled with significance.

Like Hellin's belongings.
Are they just a litmus test revealing her state of mind and Pat's tactlessness, or has Rob accidentally left some incriminating evidence in one of the bags (Stefan's DNA, some proof of account fiddling, a How to Browbeat Your Wife handbook...)?

How is that worse than Helen and Rob? It sounds as though Robin was separated from his wife and just got back together with her again, Rob wasn't even separated when he started seeing Helen. Jill isn't refusing to see Elizabeth who had an affair with Roy. Everyone in TA has affairs. Jill would be talking to no-one if she was that fussy. Good job she doesn't know about Ruth and the cowman.