Elves have needs too - will there be a pheasants' revolt? Discuss The Archers here

[PseudoBadger]

I've just browsed Lowfield for the first time - they really don't like Pat do they!

A bit disconcerted that there are no comments on tonight's episode

It was a bit meh. Helen, who seems to be off on another planet, told Anna some garbled version of things we had already heard. I mentally switched off halfway through, it wasn't exactly riveting stuff.
But did we enjoy the compare & contrast: JD & Brine celebrating with friends their 40 years together - despite his wanderings - versus Helen languishing alone in her cell because she & Rob hadn't got that understanding.
I've just realised - did we not hear any of the five DC at the do?

You've all missed the bit where Justin asked Lill to be his mistress.

You've all missed the bit where Justin asked Lill to be his mistress.

He never did though. He beat around the bush (to coin a phrase) so much that an exasperated Lil had to put it into words for him.

You've all missed the bit where Justin asked Lill to be his mistress.

He never did though. He beat around the bush (to coin a phraseblush) so much that an exasperated Lil had to put it into words for him.

And he said something about them being too old not to be straight with each other, and then totally failed to be straight about what he was asking. I can't speak for Lilian (or the scriptwriters), but I'd have been very tempted to say no just because he was being so rubbish about the asking.

(I've been single for about a million years, mind you.)

"Badly done, Helen, badly done"

Tbh I thought the compare and contrast was rather clearly between the two sisters! That's precisely why Justin and Lil's non-event happened at the wedding anniversary.

For which, yes, Debbie would inevitably have flown over. And we could have had a truly beautiful Sunday ep with all the Home Farm offspring. But no, not even (the descendants of) Lord Netherborne - just some brand new entitled nobody at the other end of the room.

"Isn't that precisely why ..." would have been better, above.

Nobody likes a bumptious poster.

No, not a single Aldridge child or grandchild spoke. Kate was mentioned in passing earlier on when Jenny was moving chairs about. Peggy would have been there too, and was also not mentioned, nor were any other Archer guests, of whom there would have been many. It would have been nice to have had a passing mention of Tony and Pat, but we have this week had some mentions of the mixed reactions in the village to The Incident. However, Justin must surely know that Helen is Brian's niece - would he really have spoken about what happened to Rob in those terms to a close relative of Helen's? Maybe he assumes that Brian would be on Rob's side, what with Brian having recruited Rob in the first place.

Actually I found it terribly hard to believe that Brian would have spoken as he did last night about Rob.

As an event supposedly celebrating faaaaaamly it was very weird indeed. No house children. People praising an enemy of the Archers. The incomprehensible public offering of gifts ...

From a social class background it was very odd. We know that Jenny isn't "proper posh" - but is Brian supposed to be? Do we know?

I had no difficulty with the focus on the guests and the public gifts, actually. Ever since the party was first mooted, it's been clear that Brian saw this as a useful occasion to network with his business cronies and to big himself up, now he's back in the game as Borchester Land chairman. You sometimes see AIBUs here where it's clear parents have financed and organised a wedding but not for their child's sake, more as a chance to wine and dine their important friends. If Alice had had a conventional wedding, I bet Brian would have attempted to do that.

Put it this way. Oliver wouldn't have made that speech or given Caroline a "ruby eternity ring" in public........

Brian was educated at Sherbourne and arrived in Ambridge as a wealthy gentleman farmer, according to the BBC TA website, so pretty posh background must be assumed. Then there's the tasselled loafers, of course.

Nobody likes a bumptious poster

Please can this be incorporated into the next thread title?

The ruby eternity ring was just naff. Why didn't JD have a diamond one years ago?

Because (sorry about this) "proper posh" people would rather eat wasps than let the words "eternity ring" cross their lips..........

I think considering all the other discrepancies of character and plot whether or not Brine would use the words "eternity ring" is the least of our problems. I also thought the contrast last night was between Lillian and Jenny - one of them is having affairs while the other is (or rather was) putting up with them. Miranda is a Jenny figure - prepared to tolerate her husband's peccadilloes. I can't believe Justin would have spelled it out I those terms - if they are going to have an affair wouldn't it just happen without it having to be so staged?

Miranda is a Jenny figure but they've made her totally unsympathetic so no one really cares about the affair. Much better drama to have made her a sympathetic character.

I suspect the wrongness of last night had rather more to do with ...

Nope. Can't say that.

Try again.

Perhaps, even if you are a highly experienced SW, it is sometimes difficult to draw a picture of a very particular seam of society at a particular moment in a way that is recogniseable to listeners who might be closer to your portrayal than you are yourself.

(Is that gentle enough?)

Agree gruach

If you don't understand who you are writing it often ends up as lazy stereotyping. They do this at both ends of the spectrum though - grundys and aldridges!

It feels to me that it's written by a metropolitan middle class elite who despise the 'posh' and lionise the poor whilst not actually having met any. They also seem to be struggling with rural life.

Maybe that's a little harsh. But I do feel the quality of writing has slipped under soc. Given the sw haven't really changed I wonder why that is.

In my defence, I got the compare&contrast between the sisters but it was spelled out the other day so I didn't think that it was specific to last night.
I was a bit surprised by the 'business discussions' about being his mistress - I thought that we were supposed to have assumed that they have already had some hankypanky before now.

And yes, I completely agree Lil'G that outside TA people would just get on with doing what they want to do without spelling it out. Perhaps the writing/editorial team genuinely thought we wouldn't get it unless they drew a map.

Crossed you R4!

I feel my hackles go up when I hear Dum De Dum De Dum De Dum and I wonder what unresolved horror they are going to introduce next. The sound of Arsula's voice makes my hair stand on end. Peggy has real form in putting her foot in it. Where has the kindness gone? It is as though the characters have become cardboard cutouts, hanging around in the shadows waiting for the next crisis to bring them out. It really is horrible, horrible listening.

I thought that Justin/Lilian exchange was clunky beyond belief. Surely it would have got started like any other affair, extra-marital or otherwise, with some sort of physical advance or suggestive look when they were alone together, rather than a business discussion at a family party where anybody could be watching/listening? OK, those are visual clues and this is radio, but once again I hark back to the start of the Brian/Siobhan affair all those years ago. Brian had gone round to Honeysuckle Cottage (which I think is where the Hathaways lived) to discuss Hungarian translations*. When the business chat was over, they sat by the fire drinking wine. Nothing was said explicitly but it was somehow immediately obvious what was going to happen. There's no subtlety like that now.

*Hungarian translations immediately became BBC Archers messageboard shorthand for hanky panky, like Private Eye's Ugandan discussions.

I felt very meh about last night. What was the point?

I wonder if SOC is an interfering a very hands on editor. I suspect key episodes have to fit into his view of Ambridge a view no-one else shares. It might explain why the SW suddenly seem inept.