Elves have needs too - will there be a pheasants' revolt? Discuss The Archers here

[PseudoBadger]

I've just browsed Lowfield for the first time - they really don't like Pat do they!

There was one point in last night's episode when Anna suggested Helen take the 'reasonable route' in letting Rob see Jack/Gideon. Like Peggy, Anna hasn't got that Rob isn't reasonable.

Oh and I noticed another of Lillian's swift changes of subject when Rob was mentioned.

As you were.

I imagine Anna's perfectly aware that Rob isn't reasonable. Her point was that Helen has to appear reasonable to the court. Given that the family court starts from the assumption that it is in the best interests of the child to have a relationship with both parents, and In the absence of any objective reason to refuse contact, Helen will look extremely unreasonable if she refuses to allow Rob to see Jack. It won't endear her to a family court judge.

I think withholding contact would make Helen appear unreasonable to ROW. I think Anna is trying to show that, apart from stabbing him, Helen is a reasonable person. Sinking to his level will make her as bad as him etc

However, she only has to do the minimum - half an hour a week sounds reasonable?

Maybe Helen should use the bargaining counter tactic? Let Henry go to her parents every weekend in return for him seeing Gideon? After all, if he has to travel 200 miles to the MBU and Arsula wants to see her grandchild also, someone has to look after Henry anyway?

Does Helen get any say in who looks after Henry?

I'm not sure Rob is going to compromise on Henry at all. He wants myson, but he also wants to show Helen he is still in control. He also thinks he needs to correct Helen's feminisation of Henry. He will go for full legal custody of both and send Henry to boarding school.

I get that it is reasonable to the courts, but whatever Helen agrees is going to be pushed to the limits by Rob in some way, just like he interprets the access day as the only contact Henry is allowed to have with BF.

I think if Rob is allowed access he will take Henry to see his brother. Helen is not allowed contact with either of them so it would be ok legally and 'reasonable'. It will further torment Helen.

Unless Helen speaks up enough and all other parties come forward so they can make a case of coercive control and so on - to most people (not just the court), there isn't any reason to prevent Rob from contact, I would have thought - and Helen does need to be seen to be doing the right thing as others will see it.

Rob'still not going to let go of Henry - far too valuable a tool to threaten Helen with.

The way Justin approached "the arrangement" - it's like she's a commodity, a prostitute. I'd far rather they'don't had something like coming home together from some do where she was being the companion/social secretary, and it just happened naturally, a peck on the cheek turned into more, like we'did mostly assumed either had or was about to happen anyway. This makes it sound like if she says no, he'll find some one else who will say yes, rather than he actually likes Lilian for herself.

And it would be much more interesting if he and Miranda showed a bit more respect and liking for each other, and sort of still got along but without a sexual relationship, and she and Lilian had taken to each other, than having a Hazel Woolley cloned baddie.

I want decent Archers characters, shades of grey and confusion and complexity, not cardboard cut-out types who are just black and white.

Mmm sat with a cuppa and catch up, settling down to catch up on yesterday....

Surely the fact that Henry has had no form of counselling/telling of the truth will look bad?

He's 5 not thick. He knows she's not on an extended holiday.

I like any scene with Lilian. She's so sparky.

Go for it Lil! Possible repercussions from that? Miranda finds out and Justin makes a swift exit/leaves his wife?

I hope Lilian doesn't get hurt again.

I hope Lilian doesn't get hurt again.

Perhaps if she laid off other peoples' husbands she might possibly have a nice, straightforward relationship. But she doesn't want that, despite her protestations.
[notTeamLillian]

Rob doesn't recognise that Helen has any rights. He never really did but now he is after retribution as well as vindication for himself.
He'll give nothing and concede nothing that he does not have to.

I'm still curious about Helen's personal belongings. Are they still at BHC?
If this was happening to my DD I would be concerned about things like her jewellery; some of which has been in the family for a very long time, personal and family photographs as well as a couple of pricey items she owns; in her case musical instruments. The idea of Ursula picking her way through these things and perhaps disposing of them would turn my blood cold.

I can't imagine soc knows she owns anything pricey

With respect to Lillian - Matt doing a runner wasn't the best way to handle things but she had been having an affair with his brother

The arrangement between Justin and Lillian seemed v weird to me. I was hoping Lillian would spill her drink all over him in response. I only care insofar as I don't want Lillian to be hurt. Was Justin flirting with Fallon?

I can't bear to hear Justin flirting. I picture him as Fred Eliot and Lillian as a petite lady. It just creates an unpleasant mental image.

Yea I suppose Lilian is the author of her own downfall, but I like her and tend to see her as well intentioned but fundamentally flawed. She makes bad decisions but I think that's what makes her human to me. A nice person who does bad things.

Is it unfair to say it's typical SOC simplistic thinking which has Miranda as a harridan? Far more true to life and interesting if she's actually a nice person and not a cartoon villain who then "deserves it". Too clean cut for me.

I agree about Miranda

I like lil too - she isn't one dimensional. Which is the problem with a lot of the new characters and the rewritten characters

As Justin has quite a distinctive voice, I'm afraid I do just picture him as Simon Williams. Which is a whole lot more attractive as a proposition than Fred Elliott.

I didn't know Simon Willian's before he appeared in ta so the voice wasn't recognisable

Not unfair, Iris. Miranda is the harridan and Lil is the lonely deserted wife who yearns for a rich man. SOC has shown no originality.

I hope there a point to the Lil/Justin relationship that doesn't involve hiding from wife. Or is it another well known actor and SOC is star struck.

I'm sure there'll be some comedy scene where lil has to hide in a wardrobe while she listens to Miranda seducing Justin.

Justin is definitely not Fred Elliot but Simon Williams isn't the feared head honcho of Berrow and the bypass either.

I fear Lillian is too fragile to cope with an affair, BYO. Maybe she will out Justin Justin and make him divorce Miranda. Realistically, it will end it with Lillian's tears, Affairs usually do