No more walking on eggshells for Helen! Heading for an eggsplosive Easter weekend in The Archers - will Helen Archer be resurrected by the end of this thread?

[PseudoBadger]

Helen knows she's not cracking up - Knob is an eggomaniac.

Are we eggshausted with this storyline?

I'm not defending that Elendon. However I would be most surprised if it were a real suggestion or wish.

Next of kin has no legal meaning at all in life. If you are a capacitous person, which Helen clearly is, no-one has any right to your medical information without your consent. DCs are different until they are older and deemed to have capacity themselves don't ask me the legalities please, it's complicated and it's a long time since I dealt with children

I make a point of saying 'is it OK if I go and have a chat to x, y and x without you' usually I am going to tell them their relative is about to die in blunter language than I will use with them though so slightly different scenario As I'm dealing with people in very sad situations they almost always expect everything to be shared with their families but every now and then someone will name a family member or friend who absolutely nothing should be shared with - it's a bit awkward when they ask a question but you have to stick to it.

Really the midwife shouldn't have left the message with Rob without having clarified with Helen she was happy for this to happen but it's a good example of a common practice in healthcare where you assume that the patient would be happy for a close relative to know things when actually they really might not.

And I agree about the assumption that being middle class and pregnant equates to box ticking when it comes to asking about abuse. I last gave birth 14 years ago, so no change in attitude there.

I'm sorry Wolp, but that's not the case. I have personal experience re next of kin. Medical settings.

Oh JAZZER! I miss Jazzer. I want him back in, preferably singing, some time soon.

Thanks Wolpertinger. I was beginning I was out of touch and that accountants now are more ethical than medics!

Elendon we are also suggesting murdering Knob under a hail of Scotch eggs. We pick every line in the Archers to shreds and hypothesise about every possible twist & turn in the outcomes. I really wouldn't worry about it. I treat this thread like a good gossip in Costa with a friend where we discuss all kinds of nonsense, because I have nobody I talk Archers with in real life. It also comes back to the recurring theme that we are all-seeing and all-hearing, whereas the Ambridge locals can only see and hear snippets. We're like the audience at the pantomime yelling "He's behind you", knowing that Patbot can't hear, but feeling much better for getting it out of our system.

He missed Burns night this year Plimsolls too.

Oh yes please. More Jazzer, more comedy pig action, please.

plimsolls I had exactly the same thought when being asked about abuse by both MW and HV recently (DD2 is 19 mo but we moved to anew area last year and one of the HV team came out to meet me s few months ago) - and the borough we live in has been absolutely notorious in the last few years for total failures in relation to safeguarding children. The question was asked, but apologetically, she seemed embarrassed and rushed past it. Since listening to HellRob I think there should be a much more detailed question about it, including a short explanation of controlling behaviour.

I still am on Pat's side in this.

It's infuriating but I don't think it's bad script writing - I think it's very good script writing.

We forgive Helen for succumbing to Rob because he represented all her hopes and dreams - happy family, home, attentive partner - after a string of disappointments and loneliness. Helen wants so hard to believe this is her happy ending.

However so does Pat - Helen has always been brittle and flinty but Pat does worry about her. She desperately wants Helen to be looked after by a loving husband.

And Helen hasn't exactly made it easy for her.

I'm sure there are lots of parents who can't bear to see that their children are being abused.

I think you are taking posters too seriously Elendon, it is meant metaphorically, tongue in cheek. Although it's a serious subject, we look for lightness at times.

Sorry but you don't Stic. This thread criticises women and posters seem to glory in the fact that their lives are oh so perfect. If, and of course it's a big if, their daughter, brought up in middle class shires happened upon a baddie like Rob, death by scotch eggs eh?, why they would know immediately and send for Dixon of Dock Green to sort it out.

Refuge has received almost £90,000 in donations because of the storyline. That is a good thing.

I'm over thinking things again. I've now skim-read 67 pages of a BMA toolkit on confidentiality. Helen undoubtedly still has capacity to make her own decisions and (according to the BMA) even if she was deemed not to have capacity, there is still no automatic assumption that her medical information should be shared with Knob. Therefore my previous comments about "What was the midwife thinking?" still hold.

I am going to clearly state for the record when I go to see a consultant in a few weeks time that they should not discuss my medical status over the phone with someone who obviously isn't me unless I'm at death's door and can't make decisions for myself. That should cover that.

Oh it's banter. So sorry.

Hilarious, yes Pat needs a cricket bat to her head. My aching sides.

Now those chickens...

Yes, the increase in donations is excellent and is truly something special. The person who started the just giving account deserves an enormous round of applause at the very least.

. I also hear that calls to WA style advice lines have increased which some people are linking to a rise in awareness due to this storyline (although can't rule out other factors, particularly current political/social context aming others which may have either led to increased prevalence and/or increased awareness).

Putthetulipsthere- "Doesn't Pat ever stop her knob worshipping??" fnarghh, lucky Moany Tony.

Elendon I'm sorry your personal experience has been different but the law is that if you have mental capacity (as Helen does) and are an adult no-one has any right to your medical information without your consent.

And next of kin has no legal meaning in life in the UK even if you lack capacity. Decisions are then made in your best interests (unless you have appointed an LPA for Welfare or Finance). In making a decision the doctors would consult with those close to you and would consider the opinions of your partner that you had lived with for 20 yrs but not married to have greater weight than your mother, who would be your legal next of kin if you died without making a will. And all would be asked to think about what you would want if you could say your wishes, and what was your best interests, not want they wanted.

Sadly not everyone does get this experience in healthcare (just as Helen hasn't) but as it's a key part of my specialty, I'm very hot on this and teach the subject regularly.

Sorry to everyone for derailing.

Stickerrocks is correct. The reason we haven't heard from Tony throughout all this is that David Troughton is on stage at the moment in Goodnight Mr. Tom. He's also in King Lear with the RSC in the late summer / early autumn, although presumably that would be handier for popping up to Birmingham to do the odd scene.

Actually, I hope he isn't in TA too much before then, because I would find it odd to have Gloucester played by Tony Archer

When you are in a medical setting, you have to put down next of kin on the consent form.

So Elendon, how would you like this thread to proceed? MN doesn't tend to go for thread police. May I suggest using the report button. And no one is forcing you to read the thread or post on it.

I actually don't find Pat all that unbelievable either.

As others have said, she is just so relieved that her DD has found someone who appears to adore her and with whom she is happy, that she simply blanks out the bits of Rob that don't square with that.

That's the thing about abuse - abusers don't just groom their victims, they groom everyone around them. They put a huge amount of work into appearing a certain way (charming, loving, concerned for their victim's welfare etc.) for the benefit of their victim's relatives and friends. It's one of the tactics they have, to isolate the victim - the ones they can't charm (like Kirsty and Ian) they try and get rid of and the ones they can't rid of, they charm.

Pat and Tony are being groomed. Pat more successfully perhaps, but that's because we haven't heard much from Tony recently. Tom less successfully, so he's kept as much at arm's length as is possible within a family like that.

Anyone can be groomed by an abuser. Even a radical, Greenham-common visiting, feisty feminist like Pat.

Although I think they could have done it more carefully, more gradually, more thoroughly, to show how it happens. The fact that so many people disbelieve it, just shows that it hasn't been done as skillfully as the main relationship, between Hellin and Rob. They needed to write a few more scenes which they presumably didn't realise were necessary.

Yay! I translated the BMA stuff correctly then Wolpertinger.

I can assure you that I do treat this thread in exactly the way that I described above, so please don't tell me that I don't Elendon.

Now back to Jazzer and his pig arks and Ian and Adam's mysterious disappearance following their romantic lunch accompanied by a packet of posh biscuits intended for Charlie....

Oh I'm staying Pseudo. I'm just being challenging and feisty.

And firmly on the side of Pat, Helen, Kirsty et al. And Tom.

My apologies for not keeping up with the thread. My DB was over doing building work and has now text me to ask if I have listened to the W's H discussion about Helen. Can anyone give me a link please? I find searching for anything on BBC very frustrating.

Delurking very briefly to ask if this might not be punitive enough for some of you...

And to say that I have disliked the knob ever since he was so vile to his wife about Salmongate and haven't really listened to TA since...don't even dare to now.