My F**king Builder.

[PavlovtheForgetfulCat]

He took all his tools last week, after receiving an agreed additional payment (from the final that we owe him) To clear the loft for the final lot of plastering he said. To be able to gain perspective he said. (he did not do this last time he plastered and there is only remedial plastering to do now up there, the rest is on the stairs, hallway etc). He talked to us about this and that, all nice.

After about 30 mins, I became a bit suspicious, again that he might have done a runner as he took everything apart from a yellow bucket. He took is ladder, why would you do this if you were plastering at height? Anyway, I am naturally suspicious. It is part of my job, it is part of my make-up. DH was a bit worried too, but we put it down to being nervous about this job. And I reminded myself of his reassuring conversation about him completing and DH and I agreed we were being unecessarily suspicious.

He was not coming in monday he said, bank holiday, out with the kids, he said.

This morning, he did not show. Did not answer his mobile. DH and I have been panicking. Eventually at 11am he phones.

And he said:

His younger brother has been rushed to hospital, is critical, collapsed lung (he only has one apparantly) and next 48 hours are critical. it had only just happened. He would try to get his plasterer mate to help him out.

Now. I am very cynical. DH said, initially, he appeared genuine. But DH is a very forgiving person and sees the best in everyone. I don't. DH started to doubt whether this was the truth or a blag. But, we are very nervous about whether this is true or not.

I actually want it to be true, so he that it means he has not done a runner with most of our money and left us in a hellhole. Does not make me a nice person I feel But then I also think he is very elaborate with his stories, has been so far and this smacks of some bullshit.

Either way, this week is dead for any work. and I am getting closer to my due date. And now, calm, chilled relaxed DH is starting to pull his hair out.

Sorry. Half of you probably won't even know what on earth I am banging on about but I needed to vent as I am so annoyed and upset and stressed and fed up it is unreal. I have no space. I am not sleeping as I am sharing with a toddler who talks in her sleep and a DH who is smoking too much and therefore snoring.

Hi Pav! I can't believe you flounced! you were actually going to leave us all hanging (a bit like your unsupported beam!). Cheek!

CAnnot believe the update. The cheek of the guy. Actually he just sounds stupid tbh. Sounds like he shouldn't really be let out on his own.

I am glad you are going to fight and I hope, hope, hope you get your money back.

buda I couldn't really flounce from this thread though could I? I will not be going for the several thousand additional costs either now. We will be going for The Lot. The full cost of a rebuild in our loft. I doubt very much we will get it, or even close to it, but I am happy to give it a chance, and would love to be a fly on the wall when he receives our counter claim, with our evidence portfolio, compared to the front sheet of rubbish he has produced, which after re-reading, does not actually even state why he beleives we owe this money, is it for alleged money not paid? For additional work he had to do to repair his mistakes? I think its just for the sheer hell of it, but surprised he has £190 to waste on court fees.

The first thing the new builder is doing right now - fixing the squeaky stairs as they are driving him mad! Good, they been driving me mad too .

I just made a fool of myself. They were not here. DH went out. About half hour later they are outside my door making some noise, so I poke my head out of the bedroom door where DD and I are chilling and said 'just to let you know, we are here, don't worry about noise though, DD can sleep through anything ' He looked at me a bit oddly 'oook' he said. I said, just knock if you need anything, I won't be asleep, just keeping out of your hair', then DH walked in, with his coat on 'oh DH has just come in' 'no, I have been here the whole time!' he said. They had all been having a coffee in the kitchen! No wonder the builder looked at me like i was mad! He did not know I did not know DH was here, he must have thought I was being prickly letting him know I was here! I had to explain and DH said 'don't worry darling, he knows you are pregnant!' the cheeky man!

LOL!

I heart my new builder.

He is working with his son. He is taking pride in his work. he has just spent all afternoon putting the posts into the banisters which were actually dangerous, and fixing the wobbly newel post and he took off the plasterboard covering the bottom of the stairs where there was lovely wood and said he will redo the plasterboard and skim underneath the stairs properly so it does not cover the wood, as it is a nice feature (we were upset about it being covered but told by other builder it had to be like that, which now, does not surprise me).

Within 3 hours he has made the staircase look and feel like quality and like it should be there, already feels like less of a building site.

He started work at 9:30am as he had another thing to finish (he was not due to start until Monday anyway). But, he and his son worked until 6pm. THEN he stopped for 30 mins for a cup of tea, and a catch up. We talked a bit about the work, a bit about common interests and general building up some rapport.

another negative though - DH went up with the camera again, one section of the floor, in a corner, appears not to be held up by anything other than - get this - putty. It is not attached to the steel beams, it is just sat there 'floating' . I would say I cannot beleive it, but I can. I can beleive anything now.

But you know what, I feel so much more positive after a day of positive atmosphere, and some proper, decent work being done that does not make me think 'is it meant to be like that', that for now at least I cannot bring myself to care about the additional floor trouble. Anyway, the SE will sort it. He might not realise, but he will have No Choice.

Pavlov it is so nice to see "I heart my new builder" & read about what work he has accomplished today - I can tell already that your spirits are lifting about the loft conversion & you have faith.

But putty OMG I am at a loss for words

Go new builder! He sounds a good 'un.

Yes, I'm also thrilled to see the line 'I heart my new builder'

househunting the new builder said to DH 'this, is called Building trade multi-purpose beam fixer' DH said 'what is that, new material?' and he said laughing 'it is also known as putty' . He has some humour at least.

I have concerns about going upstairs still due to the lobby. We can't really do much about that right now. But will talk to builder. If it was not for that, I might even feel ok about going up there, as the stairs do look nice now. But I am not sure I can overcome the lobby as its so in the wrong place still, will not be able to afford to shift it til the new year. DH has finally acknowledged that it might be better for DD up there for a while. Practical for us all even.

This builder said people are very highly critical of work completed like this anyway as so much money is spent, so it would always be inevitable that we would look with a critical eye, and that certain things that we think are wrong will become querks of the loft conversion that we will not even notice in 8 months (obviously not faults such as lobby or structural, but things like a bit of dead space we are going to make into a book area, that kind of thing).

He even said as a joke to his son that as baby could come any time in theory (hope not, got 5.5 weeks to go yet!) he should prepare to work into the night and at the weekend! Think, if I went into labour, he might well pull the stops out to finish for us before I came home.

I am sure something will go wrong again, as that seems to be how it goes for us with this, but for now, all is feeling more positive

He sounds like a good 'un.

you deserve it.

We have skirting well, at last half way around, and we have a door on bathroom, and it looks lovely! I knew should have painted the woodwork around the frame last week when I was painting, but did not know if they would take off the frame or not, typical as it means I now have to be extra careful

But yey, it is lunch time and I am not in tears (yet - still got meeting with structural engineer about the floor this evening to go)

We want photos when it is finished! Hope the meeting with the SE goes well

me too, I shall post photos when done, of before, with what the other builder left, and after, what this guy has done, to get perspective.

I have spoken to my legal advisors as part of my home insurance. Alas, not able to claim legal fees back, as there is a clause in the contract which says legal rep does not cover extensions, loft conversions, major building renovations - i asked if this was because builders get sued too often .

She did give me some good advice though, such as we can not only claim in our counter claim for money already paid out,being paid out now, but money that would need to be paid out to remedy other aspects of the work which we cannot at this stage afford to pay for, such as moving the skylights down again, moving the stairs back to original location. She said we would not be able to claim the full cost of the loft conversion, unless that is how much it would cost to repair it, but can claim all work done and due. Which is a relief. Can continue counter claim even if he backs off, and that he has to demonstrate exactly how he thinks we owe him the money he is claiming. She also said, possibly unofficially that when builders like him get sued, they tend to lie, and so hopefully he will trip himself up, I said there was little doubt about that as he was a bit of a story teller It will be a long slog and it has stuffed us financially, but we should get it all back in theory at least, even if we don't see anything from him.

AND, it is 14:40 and i still like my new builder. He has said if we get the velux blinds ordered and delivered before the end of the week, he will fit them all for us.

I think the song the man who thought he was a builder was singing, was meant to be funny. From his point of view as he knew what he was doing.

I don't think you can submit this as he might try and sue you and say it isn't fair (aw) but you certainly could use your posts as a time line for who did and said what.

FAB - that is what I am going to do. Also thin k it will become complicated to prove this site is genuine and the posts genuine while maintaining everyone's confidentiality which is of course essential. But, as you say, it gives me a timeline, something to refer back to, in order to make sure my version of events are consistent and correct, including dates.

He thought he was funny, we thought he was being a dick. Turns out, he was being a dick.

I am less bothered by it now, in that I can do nothing apart from defend and counter claim, and of course, win. There is no choice now. And as such I am resigned to the fate that is court .

DH said 'thank you doing this work for us, it is looking good' and the builder said 'well i had to offer as i felt so sorry for you when i saw what he had left you with. And then when your wife burst into to tears, well that was the clincher for me ' and chuckled.

He has done the loft hatches, the skirting, most of the floor apart from the bits that need to be left for SE to see, 3 out of 5 doors. It is looking so much better already it is unbelievable.

SE cancelled, urgent appt he cannot get out of. He is coming tomorrow now not impressed but nowt we can do about that right now.

All the work is sounding great And the legal stuff sounds workable, if not ideal with no fees paid. Can you go for legal aid? (have no idea about it, what the limits on earnings etc are so no idea if that's a stupid suggestion).

Keep on keeping on. You sound much more positive, like you have the bit between your teeth. If he wasn't such a twat I'd be feeling sorry for your old 'builder' now, with you on his case. As it is, he deserves everything that's coming to him.

Good to hear the new builder is doing a fab job...keep up the good reports!

Asides from the SE not turning up today
how does the land lay with him? Just that didn't he say that he thought the beam wasn't being used as a support? How well disposed are you guys feeling towards him...??

OOooo, OOoooo, just a thought - DP is speaking from experience here..although I hasten to add not one of his jobs He says.....

If you are taking this to court....you need to get a proper surveyors report to itemise all the sub-standard work apparently the word of the Building Inspector or the SE won't be enough. You will need a full, independent written report. Just thought I'd add that as it may help

jeanjeanie I really hope that is not the case, as we have literally no money to pay an independent surveyor. We have used all our savings to pay for the additional work. We have spoken to legal aid who have provided us with 2 hours of telephone advice, and also to our home insurance legal team who are also providing telephone advice and mentioned this to both of them, and they both think that we may be able to avoid the structural report if the SE and BE are willing to submit reports,and we have photos ourselves, but it depends on the judge, we have to fill out a form a bit further on which will indicate if this might be needed. Fingers crossed not.

No help with legal aid in terms of fees, unfortunately, 2 hours of telephone advice.

How do I feel about the SE? I think he is almost as much of a turkey as the builder. For several reasons. 1 - we asked him to come and check the floor after it was lowered by the builder, before the boards went down, and he said that apart from a couple of minor changes all was fine. Not true.

He also said that the floating beam was not supporting anything. Firstly, he would not have been able to tell, as he did not know how the builder was supporting everything else without taking the floor up. Secondly, he knew it was not supporting anything as he made no allowance for it in his drawings. So, that was also not true.

All 3 builders who have been here have said they could not, without pulling the floor up, see how the beam could be non-supporting, and the first builder took up a couple and said as far as he was concerned it was not supported.

This builder has shown us how part of the floor is unsupported. It appears to only be a part around where the stairs go up, and should have been supported through the main stair joist (not joist, don't know the name, the pillar that holds up the stairs). He did say the floor would never fall down, but it is held up by a supporting wall, rather than the other way round which is not ideal.

He has said though, that if the SE states he will charge for giving us a solution, he will talk to BE himself and they will come up with a solution, will involve a small steel across that part of the floor, half days work. I told him he could bloody try to charge, but would not if he knew what was good for him .

I cannot sleep. I am worrying about 1. the stupid lobby which is far to long and ruins the loft, but is expensive to move as it has electrics in the wall and 2. whether we should paint or varnish the skirting

The builder is not happy about waiting for SE so he has spoken to him on the phone and devised a plan. It will cost us £50 and we will be charging it to the SE. He has said that unfortunately, there is no way we can lose the ugly beam, but once it is strengthened, he will pack it, plaster it, cove around it to make it look like it is meant to be there. Star.

He was talking to us today about a website he has set up with some other companies to promost trustworthy builders, after a spate of dodgy builders, plasterers etc surfacing recently. They have been working in conjunction with the local building control, as apparantly they cannot themselves recommend or dispute a builder's rep, but have agreed they can refer people to this website. Our builder said that you can ruin your reputation with one bad job after building it for years and years and as such the people on this site work to ensure they never do a bad job. He said all those recommended were as experienced and qualified, if not more so, than he. He has given us some cards and a leaflet which he is leaving with everyone he does work with.

I think we have found our builder for the future. He has agreed to quote us for some more work we want done in the future, once this is sorted, some remedial work relating, and some other non-related minor repairs. And, we will do this type of thing again, but we will learn from it, and we now know someone who we trust.

He said he thinks the main problem with the last builder was that he found himself out of his debth and rather than admit it, covered up. He said some of the decisions the other builder made indicated, rather than doing it badly on purpose, he just did not know, and was too stubborn to ask.

they are doing it! They are sorting out the beam and it sounds scary I can't look, all I can hear is the sound of falling debris .

OMG - don't look pavlov, don't look

A decent builder will know exactly what's what with that beam I reckon...regardless of the SE being there. We have a beam holding up our ceiling and that's exactly how ours is..strapped, covered in fire retardent plasterboard (metal gets hot in fire - so it's a legal requirement) and then plastered - it actually looks quite a cool, structural feature!

Well DP said the other night (not that we were talking about you or anything ) that he thought your builder was out of his depth and he probably started off wrong until eventually it grew out of proportion.

Keep up the good news!

New builder constructed a metal plate of some kind, got it welded properly by a welder this morning to bolt onto stairs, beam etc, and now its taking the load. He said all the SE would do it similar, then set out some calculations to evidence it afterwards and he can do that himself although we will get the SE to calculate so we can show it to the BI.

Day 4 - still happy

Hahah that's what DP did with our house! Did it all - then got his uncle (a SE...handy!) to do the calculations..spot on it was! Phew. BI thought we'd gone above and beyond the call of duty!

Good luck for Day 5 in the Pavlov household.