My F**king Builder.

[PavlovtheForgetfulCat]

He took all his tools last week, after receiving an agreed additional payment (from the final that we owe him) To clear the loft for the final lot of plastering he said. To be able to gain perspective he said. (he did not do this last time he plastered and there is only remedial plastering to do now up there, the rest is on the stairs, hallway etc). He talked to us about this and that, all nice.

After about 30 mins, I became a bit suspicious, again that he might have done a runner as he took everything apart from a yellow bucket. He took is ladder, why would you do this if you were plastering at height? Anyway, I am naturally suspicious. It is part of my job, it is part of my make-up. DH was a bit worried too, but we put it down to being nervous about this job. And I reminded myself of his reassuring conversation about him completing and DH and I agreed we were being unecessarily suspicious.

He was not coming in monday he said, bank holiday, out with the kids, he said.

This morning, he did not show. Did not answer his mobile. DH and I have been panicking. Eventually at 11am he phones.

And he said:

His younger brother has been rushed to hospital, is critical, collapsed lung (he only has one apparantly) and next 48 hours are critical. it had only just happened. He would try to get his plasterer mate to help him out.

Now. I am very cynical. DH said, initially, he appeared genuine. But DH is a very forgiving person and sees the best in everyone. I don't. DH started to doubt whether this was the truth or a blag. But, we are very nervous about whether this is true or not.

I actually want it to be true, so he that it means he has not done a runner with most of our money and left us in a hellhole. Does not make me a nice person I feel But then I also think he is very elaborate with his stories, has been so far and this smacks of some bullshit.

Either way, this week is dead for any work. and I am getting closer to my due date. And now, calm, chilled relaxed DH is starting to pull his hair out.

Sorry. Half of you probably won't even know what on earth I am banging on about but I needed to vent as I am so annoyed and upset and stressed and fed up it is unreal. I have no space. I am not sleeping as I am sharing with a toddler who talks in her sleep and a DH who is smoking too much and therefore snoring.

I broached the subject with her at bedtime, I said 'how would you like to go and sleep in the loft when it is finished? You could sleep in the special room instead of mummy and daddy if you want to? and she said 'yes ok, and you will sleep in here with brother? can I paint it pink?' and then said to DH when he came in 'can we paint the loft pink daddy?' So that is a good sign!

I don't think I will dwell on it in time, I think once the benefits have rubbed off, and once we are used to the 'querks' of the room, it will be a normal room to us and I will be fine with it, so if we feel that this is a temporary solution only we can move up there in the future.

. Builder 3 has quoted us. It is horrendous. It is 2k more than the very first builder/carpenter who priced us after we fired mr shit builder! (but not the actual builder no.1, he is yet to quote, but i suspect he will come in at the same kind of price as builder 3

Do you think, that given the fact the SE did not inform us the floor was not to plans, even though he knew, means we should be able to claim some money from him to cover some of the remedial work, for example the replacement of the floor which was needed to be removed and replaced (badly) - if he had told us the floor was wrong when he knew (ie when there was some discussion with the building inspector) the floor panels would not have been laid in the first place and the floor could have been lowered without damaging the floor panels. I am wondering if I can claim anything from him either by asking, or formally through his own insurance? If we could get him to pay for the cost of the floor to be re-layed, it could help us to swallow the bitter pill .

Oh pav sorry it's come in so high, hopefully then builder 1 will be more in line with what you were expecting.

As for the SE - do you have any sort of contract with him? Even if just verbal? i.e. did you pay him to just do plans or to monitor work etc. too?
If so, and he knew there was a problem with the work against the plans, then I would suggest that yes you have some recompense against him for not providing the work that you retained him for.

What happened with him when the problem with the floor was spotted? Who spotted it and what was his answer when told it was wrong? Did you ask him why he didn't flag it?

I wonder would a call to CAB be worthwhile so you can find out your rights? Or you could call trading standards and see what they say?

He was commissioned to do the drawings, that was what he was paid for, but he said that this included acting as 'agent' between builder and Building Control if required, that he will keep in the background and surface if required.

Originally there were some issues with the floor and a central wall raised by the building inspector when he came to pass the floor. Builder spoke to SE, who spoke to building control and it was sorted out without any remedial need. The floor was passed. But was too high. Too high as in according to plans, but not structurally unsound hence it being passed.

SE would have known about it being too high at this point.

We spotted it being too high, and was fobbed off by builder, thought he knew what he was doing, and given his contact with SE, did not puruse it until stairs went in and bedroom was made too small. Then we called the SE straight away and said he needed to come check it, and he said 'i know the floor was put in too high, so that would account for the stairs going in wrong, but I need to come check' he came and checked with the builder and the builder agreed the floor was wrong. Then.

But they both new at the time of the building control visit that the floor was wrong. Way before the floor was put down. The height of the floor was the builder's fault, but the fact the SE knew, that is his fault as he has responsibility surely?

I will take it further - I think first of all I might actually say all this to the SE and then ask for his indemnity insurance details so I can contact them for advice too. And I will ask him to agree to sort it out without having to go down this route.

Anyway, best go, taken me so long to post, the other builder is now here measuring this and that and the other and probably totting up how much he can get towards a nice long carribean break

I would definitely speak to the SE about this - he should have mentioned the floor issue being too high as soon as he noticed it. He obviously knew about it from what he said when you asked him to come round. He should take some responsibility here. Good luck

This first guy. Making it more complicated than he needs to. He went around looking at this and that and the other, saying 'i need to talk to BI about this, this might not be right, this might not pass building regs, that might need changing which will mean this work and that work' - no, its all been passed. Apart from the beam which is a working issue, BI already said what needs to be done to pass building regs - which is xyz. We want that done, I don't care what else might not technically be right as we cannot afford to change it. If it has not been mentioned by BI just bloody leave it. I said to him it won't mean anything apart from messing us up further if we go down this route as anything else that is highlighted that has so far been passed will only mean we end up living in a building site for years as we do not have the money to repair anything like he is talking about. Just to make it clear to him in case he is hoping for more work/money from us. He won't get it and he could bloody well make this worse! I also told him I just want the room usable so we can have this bloody baby in not so much chaos, and so that I can perhaps feel little less stressed, I don't want to think about worst case scenario, best case is our way. And he said he needs to look at this for his own sake. Fair enough I guess.

He said he is just making us aware of worst case scenario in case BI decides to go back around and backtrack on all the work and notice these things, while looking at the loft. But he said he won't mention it.

He also wants to meet with BI and SE before giving us a price. I said I would like a price based on what we have discussed, regardless of outcome of BI/SE meeting - and if this brings out anything untoward that affects that price, we will take another look at it and see where it leaves us.

Bloody hell why does it have to be so complicated? It was not for the builder 3 bloke - its going to cost a fortune, this is it. He did not give a toss about anything else.

Oh jeanie can you ask your dp, if we want to go for wooden floorboards rather than chipboard locking thingies, what would the cheapest/best value ones be? We got a quote for pine, and they are mucho costly! We were wondering whether it would be cheaper to go for these rather than new floor at say £400 plus carpet which is no cheap.

What about 'nice' laminate? We're looking at some for a bedroom which is less than 10m2 with a 20 year guarantee.

Can you board the floor with this though? We are thinking of going straight to boards and bypassing the whole mdf flooring.

Oh I see. I'd be surprised if laminate + MDF worked out more expensive than pine boards. Plus wouldn't boards nailed directly onto joists be a bit noisy upstairs? My mum and dad did this in an extension and the sounds travels really badly both ways iyswim.

Meant to put that laminate was £10 per m2 rather than 10m2!

Blimey Pavlov - it's all go. I shall ask DP later - he's sorting out another job atm. Sorry - not had time to catch up properly but can see that the quotes came in high.

Now, I hate to be a killjoy - but I know my DP is in a bracket that tends to be higher than some other builders. It's difficult because DP tends to be A+ with quoting...and that's because he tends to know that if he does a 'cheap' job - it's usually not really what the client wants and that leads to disputes. He's also bloody good and an amazing structural timber framer I'd say that the good builders on the whole charge a bit more. Sadly so do many of the cowboys. Sorry - that was all no help at all.

DP did say the other night that if he was one of the builders quoting he wouldn't even bother giving it a go until there was a concrete decision on this beam as it will affect a whole host of other things that a decent builder would have to talk you through. You need a solid quote and that's hard to do if you're not 100% sure on the scale of the job.

Oh and DP's uncle is a SE (handy!) and he has something called Personal Indemnity Insurace - think that it's something they all have to have. May be worth finding out and if your situation warrants it being used for your benefit.

I'll get back to you later

Oh does it? Even with significant sound proofing/insulation etc? DH goes a bit crazy if you mention laminate to him so not sure about that, but will discuss it at least, its only an idea we are mooting about to cheer us up, likely is we will do nought of the sort anyway!

Thanks jeanie I guess this is the issue builder 1 has, he has all these potentials in his head. Hopefully the building inspector and the SE will get together this week.

Now, both the builders want to meet with them both - so what then?!

Substrate - floor isn't it? So if the substrate is levelled, that means the floor yes?

Do builders do bartering? Ie if we say - drop it to £xx including yz and we have a deal? Any scope? Worth even doing? Or will he just say 'dont need the work so take it or leave it' ?

DP says 'that's not bartering - that's haggling!' Well, you can barter but do it along these lines; if you want to spend less then say - "we want to employ you but is there any way we can bring the costs down? Can we use cheaper materials somewhere" so approach it that way. Ask the builder to help you both find a way. If he's any good then he's not going to slash his profit margin dramatically as there really is quite a bit of work out there ATM.

As for flooring - speaking from experience - don't skimp on the layer before the boards the noise will be hideous! If you go for laminate there are some lovely ones out there...but don't go really cheap as they're just like photocopies onto chipboard. Personally, I'd be tempted by a decent laminate if you're having the kids up there!! We've done that and not regretted it. Add gorgeous big rugs (loving GTC!)eh Voila! We're not having kittens over paint, crayons and learning to carve into the floor!

That is what I meant! I think we might be able to get costs down a little - for example, we were having a radiator up there, might not bother as it will not be cold. And the pipes are run, so once this is sorted and DH is working again we can get our own plumber to put one in, also we have skirting, its not the best in the world, but it will be fine. The builder was quoting for materials as well as fitting, so that would reduce costs. Flooring, well we will best just go with what he has suggested 'grade chipboard' I think it is? What else? Oh thats about it really. Everything else is essential stuff, but it will reduce it by couple hundred, it all helps.

Does your dp know what substrate means? Does that just mean evening the floor out before he puts down the boards? Does he know how this would be done? Is it easy? How long would that part take? Tell him he does not have to answer if he does not want to! If he thinks I am taking the pee for example!

That's sounds just like DP would suggest pavlov. A decent builder should include everything-but-the-kitchen-sink in a proper itemised quote - so you know the full case scenario of what you're after. If they forget to add stuff like light fittings, the client generally falls over when they realise how much 5 of them are ontop of the existing bill!

Dp is a big fan of chipboard! We've got it here under the floor board. No, he won't have to even it out flat. If there are kinks in your floor/dips etc then he'll have to address those and get the overall surface level before the boards go ontop. Substrate just means the floor to lay the boards on to - and that chipboard is excellent. We've got lashings of it here. No squeaks in our house!

Let us know how you get on PS. DP loves it....likes to have an air of authority !

So...

this expensive builder. He emailed back as I asked him about the beam as his price did not include this mentioned.

He said something along the lines of 'not mentioned in quote, as he is nticipating that it will be removed and it will all be fine. He said he has seen and repaired so much problematic workmanship he and his team are experienced enough to rectify most situations and he feels this will be easily rectifiable even if takes a little work, at no extra cost to us. He also said that the floorboards were a lot cost wise as they were pine, and the varnish is pricey, and he would recommend chipboard too, also for us to talk to him with regard to costs/etc - DH spoke to him briefly today and agreed to chat properly tonight about ways forward.

I think, that this is the right guy. He might be pricey, and it might well leave us eating beans on toast for a while but he will be able to get this job done well, and he can start in 2.5 weeks when this job finishes, before moving onto his next job.

jeanie I am glad your DP has had his ego boosted a little

DH managed to get him down by £500! Might not sound a lot but that is the price of a carpet for the loft if we don't get wooden floor, or carpet in another room, or a million things for the baby that i have been too scared to buy yet,

He said he was not prepared to compromise on material! He is decorating the current project he is doing so as he has to wait for the plaster to dry, he may well be able to at least come in a fit the fire doors for us, so if the baby arrives early DD will have a bedroom to move into .

Pavlov - excellent news!

And good to see he recommends the chipboard - it's the future

Good news about getting the doors in too. Having someone who knows what they're doing will be cheaper in the long run - I promise!

Let us know when you have good news. Would love to hear the upshot on the beam saga

We decided that, in the end the cost of compromising now we have lost so much money is not worth it. The difference in price of us getting a chippy to bodge it or this guy to do it right is not big enough for us to take yet another chance.

We told him we would confirm by end of the week. And he will start work 2 weeks on monday, be done in 1 week.

I hope this continues upwards in a positive direction. If this goes wrong again, I am going to be so upset.

Thank your dp jeanie! I will keep you all updated, we are not there yet!

We have booked the builder to start work 2 weeks on monday. He will try to do a couple of days beforehand to get doors in but no promises. He will be done within the week.

Still not heard anything from SE/BI about the beam, despite leaving messages, and nothing from the builder, including the requested return of keys . Wondering whether I should bother to report him to the police for theft of them? We have changed the locks anyway, as we do not trust him now. But its the principle.

Great news Pavlov - done within the week sounds great.

I suppose you've techinically got a couple of weeks to sort the beam out - just keep pushing.

Mmmmm, wouldn't like him not returning the keys - that's just him being petulant...he knows now you'll have to change the locks. Twat

Well, I look forward to a new thread entitled 'My lovely, super-doopa builder is ace'!

Oh but do post and let us know what the deal with the beam is - I'm intrigued.

Try and kick back and enjoy the rest of your time before the LO arrives x

I might just report him to the police. we can all be childish can't we?

Ah, go on then, just for a larf