My F**king Builder.

[PavlovtheForgetfulCat]

He took all his tools last week, after receiving an agreed additional payment (from the final that we owe him) To clear the loft for the final lot of plastering he said. To be able to gain perspective he said. (he did not do this last time he plastered and there is only remedial plastering to do now up there, the rest is on the stairs, hallway etc). He talked to us about this and that, all nice.

After about 30 mins, I became a bit suspicious, again that he might have done a runner as he took everything apart from a yellow bucket. He took is ladder, why would you do this if you were plastering at height? Anyway, I am naturally suspicious. It is part of my job, it is part of my make-up. DH was a bit worried too, but we put it down to being nervous about this job. And I reminded myself of his reassuring conversation about him completing and DH and I agreed we were being unecessarily suspicious.

He was not coming in monday he said, bank holiday, out with the kids, he said.

This morning, he did not show. Did not answer his mobile. DH and I have been panicking. Eventually at 11am he phones.

And he said:

His younger brother has been rushed to hospital, is critical, collapsed lung (he only has one apparantly) and next 48 hours are critical. it had only just happened. He would try to get his plasterer mate to help him out.

Now. I am very cynical. DH said, initially, he appeared genuine. But DH is a very forgiving person and sees the best in everyone. I don't. DH started to doubt whether this was the truth or a blag. But, we are very nervous about whether this is true or not.

I actually want it to be true, so he that it means he has not done a runner with most of our money and left us in a hellhole. Does not make me a nice person I feel But then I also think he is very elaborate with his stories, has been so far and this smacks of some bullshit.

Either way, this week is dead for any work. and I am getting closer to my due date. And now, calm, chilled relaxed DH is starting to pull his hair out.

Sorry. Half of you probably won't even know what on earth I am banging on about but I needed to vent as I am so annoyed and upset and stressed and fed up it is unreal. I have no space. I am not sleeping as I am sharing with a toddler who talks in her sleep and a DH who is smoking too much and therefore snoring.

How's it going Pav? Hope things are progressing well and you are less stressed!

Builder with keys must know you will need to change locks and is probably happy you have to pay out more money . Could DH go round and get them?

Shop him to the Inland Revenue

How are things this week Pav??

Hey! I flounced, but thought I would pop in with an update.

1. The new builder starts work tomorrow. He is really nice. He is the one who made me cry, and this evening he popped in for a key, and DH was not here. He said 'i am sorry I made you cry when I was last here, i did not mean to', aw sweet. I told him not to worry, he just said some things that were true and made us realise how stupid we had been, we had learnt a valuable lesson, at a huge cost emotionally and financially and now we need to put it to bed. He said, end of next week and you will be able to do that. So, doors in tomorrow.

1. recieved a small claim court notification from the builder. I have, in all truthfulness not chuckled so much for a while. Firstly he does not know I like a fight. Secondly, he does not know how to put an argument together, thirdly he clearly sought no legal advice, fourthly he has no evidence, or at least not supplied any to back up his claim for a made up amount. He has written, as his defence, half a page of completely unsubstantiated garbage, including that he lowered the floor after advising us it would cost us, and then coming to a compromise to 'help us out'. His argument is at best inconsistent and at worst just comically wrong.

So, I have sought some legal advice on how to respond. I have evidence of damage being his fault, I have photographic evidence of his bad work, plus structure engineer evidence, reports from BI (obviously need to get these, but we have seen them so know they exist). I need to put down how he coerced us into paying more money before completion by threatening to walk off site, provide quote given, evidence of money paid so far, written evidence from structural engineer regarding his own fees to be taken off (we have that already, but told better to double the proof of a. total amount and b. his own fees from that).

And, then we are also putting in a counter claim for the cost of the repairs, the cost of remedial work we cannot afford to do as he has not followed plans, but it will cost too much to redo, the cost of damaging our carpets, the cost of finishing the job to meet building regs, cost of replacing our locks. Have no decided if we will do specific amount, or unspecified for judge to decide.

He is going to wish he had never bothered with making up some fictional amount, and wish he had just walked away. I am Pissed Off.

So - good and bad

Oh, good for you! A friend of mine took his builder to the small claims court, and apparently the judge took one look at the photos of the bodged job and ruled in his favour straight away.

Well, great news on new builder - he sounds lovely.

As for the original builder - what a pillock - does he seriosly think he'll win?

Ok sounds like new builder is a good egg. Old builder is as thick as the beams he failed to deal with! You've chcuked him off the job after being told by building regs that it was wrong on multiple levels. The job isn't what was asked for and anyway you paid him right up to the point you had definate proof he was a fuckwit not fit to be in charge of a cup of tea let alone a building site! He's living in la la land - I do hope you get some cash out of him but I guess the chances are limited - not of you winning but of him actually being made to pay? Keep us up to date anyway

Northernlurker - I have no expectation of ever seeing a penny from him, but it will not stop me sending in the baillifs or putting a hold or whatever its called against his property for the amount. Or the very least, stopping him from working in that profession again. And it will piss him right off too.

grendelsmum did he take the photos himself, or where they from an independent surveyor? As our photos are ones we have taken ourselves, as we cannot afford the independent surveyor, we need the money to pay for the remedial work. But thanks for the positive spin - we are hoping the judge will be someone who has been shafted by a builder, so will be on our side from the outset. Can but hope. If it was his own photos though, that would be great, as we have a ton of photos showing his dodgy workmanship.

OMG! The bloke is barking

Good that you've got the whole things documented and aren't just annoyed...IYSWIM You could always print out this thread!

Keep us posted on the saga and horrah for the new builder!

Oh, the first twat builder just has no idea he's about to enter into a fight with the equivalent of a Jack Russell snapping at his ankles!

A dog with a bone, that is me. I have just re-read this thread, and I will go dig out the other thread I posted too, as they have helped with dates...do you think they would accept this thread as evidence (obviously with all names blanked out so no-one can be identified and website name removed). Would be interesting to know if this could be used as part of my evidence, alongside other stuff, as a time-line and to show how messed around we were? [ponders]. I guess the problem would be proving it is legit without giving the website name, and that would make it traceable, I would not want him to come snooping on here.

Witness statement from; Ilovemydog

would appear very professional wouldn't it?

Oooo, me, me, me too...I could get dressed up and everything **ponders that she really should get out more!

Well, Pavlov, it seems that threads from MN are positively de riguer these days in the national press...so why not court too? If it's good enough for the Daily Wail The builder would probably reel back in shock....gasps of horror from the defence team..."If we'd known she'd been a MNetter then we wouldn't have bothered..."

I have just taken a look back through the threads and I think I lurve mumsnet!

Basically, I have a diary of pretty much all of it, what was said at the time, by whom, and the stress is has caused, the hassle it has been, how he has pursuaded us to continue to get more money from us.

All documented. I will printing off my quotes and sending them in as evidence of my diary.

this thread in particular is fantastic as it relates to the specifics he is stating that the money he is claiming is in part money outstanding for moving the floor

Bingo.

DH said, 'does this mean I might even thank MN for something?'

Just a quick post in case anyone is out there.

Builder took floor panels up to check the offending beam, you know, the one that will be fine. The one that is just floating there not doing very much?

Well.

its not fine.

The old C of a builder has supported the entire floor on it. The floor is hung from the steels on each side and is resting through the middle of the room on this unnecessary beam, which is not supported anywhere else, in any way whatsoever.

When I heard only half the words that DH had to say to me, it all became slow motion, and I lost it pretty good. I cried so hard I was sick, I almost passed out due to feeling so tense. I just felt like it has started all over again.

So it will not be done by the end of the week. But, the builder thinks it won't be too bad. The structural engineer is coming out on monday to come up with a solution. He fucking better. We called him out last time to check the floor was ok before the boards went back down and he had said 'yes'. He is being quite compliant s far. Well he better be compliant or else I will sue him as well.

On the plus side, he thinks the old C of a builder will back down as he has no leg to stand on with his court claim. Shame for him really as we will not now, he has started something he will seriously regret. SE also said he will write a full report of what has gone wrong, when, how and who he feels is responsible, to include the current problem with the beam (to evidence continued problems), for us to send in with our other evidence.

I cannot tell you how mightily angry I am. All those other posts, they pale into insignificance. I have 4-6 weeks max before this baby arrives and now I am facing a court battle and that has not made me happy.

So, if we are going to do it we are going to do it properly. This counter claim is the start. I am going to sue him for all the money we have paid him. On the basis that the only real way we can rectify this problem to make it as it should have been if it was done right in the first place is to rip it out and start again.

In fact, the other builder spent much of the afternoon singing that to himself as he threw the floor out yesterday, much to my annoyance , jarred a bit, as the other builder used to sing 'we got to get out of this place' towards the end before we sacked him but I shall forgive him as long as he does not keep doing it.

I am going swimming with my DD to calm the family (DH and I) down).

Post if you want, i think I needed to vent more than anything.

Oh my god, Pav, that is just unbelievable. What a git. Stupid, unprofessional...

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this now - this should not be happening.

(Btw - did you flounce after a namechange thread? If you are who I think you are there were some replies after your flounce post.... not that that's probably much comfort).

Take every opportunity to relax that you can - swimming sounds good. Could you get some relaxation CDs for pregnancy? Just anything to get you a bit of headspace away from all this.

Good luck.

curlyrehead I did flounce! yes, and yes, after a namechange, I thought I was subtle in my namechange, but no, guess not . but MN is hard to keep away from. I am still on my ante natal thread, and everyone on this thread is very supportive and I felt unable to stay away for long. Also thought people would be interested in the updates, seeing as they are not exactly boring .

I have made the decision to use MN solely for what I intended it for originally, as a support for being a parent, and to support others in being a parent where I can. I am not going to bother with the other stuff, as that gets in the way of what makes MN good. Its a shame I should miss out because of other things that get in the way, and I will not buy into it.

Aaaaanway - builder - indeed, he is more than stupid. He is, well there is something wrong there, for him to be like this with another human being. He has pushed me so far, it is not possible to turn back now. I had hoped, preyed, that if we just paid someone else, we could get on with things, and the money, well we would have to use it as a learning curve. I hoped that by moving forward, we could maybe get back to where we wanted to be with this pg, with this baby arriving, get some of our hopes back. They have all been dashed, so I am now changing focus and now realise that there is no getting away from a fight while pg, and with a newborn. I will take this as far as I can now. I will not let him win. Not a chance. He cannot come into my family and ruin it and walk away.

I didn't actually notice the name - it was more the circumstances. But I might not even have the right flouncer....

I think you have a good realisation - that life isn't going to be how you imagined and you need to decide how you want to make things now that there's a whole new situation. It's shit that you have to have this fight in the last few weeks of pg and with a newborn.... but I think you should go get him, if you can muster the energy, your right that he shoudlnt' get away wtih this.

OMG Pavlov - that's horrific

I'm so sorry - you really didn't need that. It is however confirming all the awful things you suspected about the old builder. Blimey, he obviously covered it up well..as he quite a few people fooled for sometime that it was ok I'm so pleased that you guys stuck at it though - I mean you always thought it wasn't right, in that it was dangerous.

At least your new builder is singing because he CAN put it right now. My DP listens to Radio 3 on a job....totally baffles his clients and I'm sure it drives them nuts too...so, you see, it could be worse on the old ears

Keep up posted..deep breathes....and you LO will be arriving into a safe and lovely house

Pavlov - yes, my friend took his own photos, just showing the bad workmanship (I don't remember the details, but I think there was some bad plumbing and plaster work?), and the judge ruled immediately that that was not what someone would expect from a professional service. The only thing is that yours sounds a bit more technical - it relies on a structural engineer saying that this is not appropriate.

I'm reading this to cheer myself up as our kitchen fitters say cheerily "I'm afraid we can't finish this for another week and a half."

OMG this builder is a total b*stard (to put it mildly). I can't wait until he gets what he deserves - wish you could name & shame him...how about contacting your local paper once it is all over & let them write about this cowboy? He is a total rat.

grendlesmum glad I can be of some service! I hope your builder trouble is very minor. A week and a half is a pain though isn't it?

Although it is more technical, most of the photos clearly show bad/shoddy workmanship, even if not able to show the structural side of it, cracked plaster, broken floorboards, damaged stairs, re-using old materials when he is claiming for new materials used, that kind of thing. Also, the SE is going to give us a structural report regarding the structural errors in his work, and we are getting the reports from the building inspectors too. While I know your brother getting a good result does not mean we will, it gives me some confidence that a) he will not get a penny from us and b) we might be able to recoup some of the costs we are having to incur to fix this so thanks for giving us a little hope at least .

It sounds really weird, but just come in from being out for several hours, and our place smells like there have been builders in. Its a smell I don't recall from last time, it smells of, the only way I can explain it, is - expensive tools? Good quality material? Strange how your mind can associate things isn't it?

Been swimming with DD and DH, feel much calmer, although I mainly bobbed about with DDs noodle! And now we are snuggled, DD and I, watching The Cat Returns (Studio Ghibli film).

househunting once this is over, and we have won our case at court, thus proving him to be a cowboy, we shall expose him, as he won't be able to do me for libel/slander as what I would say would have been upheld in court already.