My F**king Builder.

[PavlovtheForgetfulCat]

He took all his tools last week, after receiving an agreed additional payment (from the final that we owe him) To clear the loft for the final lot of plastering he said. To be able to gain perspective he said. (he did not do this last time he plastered and there is only remedial plastering to do now up there, the rest is on the stairs, hallway etc). He talked to us about this and that, all nice.

After about 30 mins, I became a bit suspicious, again that he might have done a runner as he took everything apart from a yellow bucket. He took is ladder, why would you do this if you were plastering at height? Anyway, I am naturally suspicious. It is part of my job, it is part of my make-up. DH was a bit worried too, but we put it down to being nervous about this job. And I reminded myself of his reassuring conversation about him completing and DH and I agreed we were being unecessarily suspicious.

He was not coming in monday he said, bank holiday, out with the kids, he said.

This morning, he did not show. Did not answer his mobile. DH and I have been panicking. Eventually at 11am he phones.

And he said:

His younger brother has been rushed to hospital, is critical, collapsed lung (he only has one apparantly) and next 48 hours are critical. it had only just happened. He would try to get his plasterer mate to help him out.

Now. I am very cynical. DH said, initially, he appeared genuine. But DH is a very forgiving person and sees the best in everyone. I don't. DH started to doubt whether this was the truth or a blag. But, we are very nervous about whether this is true or not.

I actually want it to be true, so he that it means he has not done a runner with most of our money and left us in a hellhole. Does not make me a nice person I feel But then I also think he is very elaborate with his stories, has been so far and this smacks of some bullshit.

Either way, this week is dead for any work. and I am getting closer to my due date. And now, calm, chilled relaxed DH is starting to pull his hair out.

Sorry. Half of you probably won't even know what on earth I am banging on about but I needed to vent as I am so annoyed and upset and stressed and fed up it is unreal. I have no space. I am not sleeping as I am sharing with a toddler who talks in her sleep and a DH who is smoking too much and therefore snoring.

i like her too. DH has shocked me with his statement .

scarlotti, yes that is what I like too. He does seem very much damsal in distress needs help, I am here to do it. He is obviously pleased we had a recommendation from his accountant, he visibly beamed at this, and he has promised he would get it finished before the baby arrives. He is moving along like he has the job already though which I need to slow down, as he has not even quoted us yet! I am hoping he will not charge us too much for the privalege of saving our bacon!

In fact, all of them said they would do it before the baby arrives. The last guy said, when we asked about timescale 'er, around 3 months after xmas (long pause) seriously, we can fit it in at the end of this job we are doing which finishes in 3 weeks max. It will only take a week to do' And I did not even flinch and he said 'you are really cheesed off aren't you?' er. No shit!

Actually yes, jeanjeannie - I had forgotten I could call on folk much closer. It was very similar in Bulgaria. Hungary is more civilised.

Sorry to read that this is going from bad to worse. We went down the road of giving the builder time to do the remedial work (not 2 weeks though as you suggest as all of the others say that they can do it in a week). However, we did this in the knowledge that they would not be able to do it an we also said that one of the builders who had been abusive to my husband could not come back on site. Our architect advised us that we had to give them a chance to do it or we would be in breach of contract. We also made absolutely clear that we would not be prepared to pay for the remedial work and to the extent we already had, we would withold that from the final contract price (thus ensuring that there was no money it for them to come back).

DH just told builder we don't want him to return, and he said 'you can't afford for me to finish the job can you?' effing cheek! I mean I guess he is technically correct, in that we cannot afford to pay him to do it, then pay someone else to rectify it! DH said he was not happy with a lot of things, including standard of work and he said 'don't you slag off my work' and DH said but its awful mate .

Letter going in the post in a moment, recorded delivery. So it is done, decision is made, he is no longer going to cause us any stress, at least not relating to the build (he might try in other ways, we anticipate him not making this easy but hey, we will manage).

So, regardless of what else happens, how much it costs, we will hopefully get this place finished. If this first builder pulls through in terms of cost and work I will be amazed very happy. I am not expecting a 'good deal', in fact I am presuming they will wack a bit on for 'helping out', as long as we don't get ripped off and the job is good, as good as it can be we will live with that. I am just hoping its not horrendous as we don't have a infinite amount of cash left.

So. Today is a new day. DH and I feel so releived. That means its the right decision. There is not an ounce of wonder if this is the right course of action now it is done, which speaks volumes to me.

We have said that although we are internally kicking ourselves every 5 minutes over the mistakes that have happened, and realistically it won't be easy to stop that, we will not dwell on the past, on what has happened, on things we can no longer change. We will now concentrate on learning from those mistakes and moving forward, concentrate on getting the job finished to as a good a standard as we can, and be positive from now on.

And, even better, the weather is glorious. DH is going to take DD out for a couple of hours. I am going back to bed for a sleep, then I am going to make lasagne for tea. Our friend is coming back from her parents today with her newborn, her DP is away and she has been staying with them, and she is coming back to an empty house with just her baby, so we are taking lasagne over, and spending a few hours with her so she does not have to cook/clean up afterwards. I am looking forward to seeing her.

And once I have made lasagne, we are going to the beach to splash in the sea and do some rockpooling before heading to friend's house.

Excellent news, you've definitely made the right decision. Ok, so you could have stuck it out for another two weeks and watched him 'try' to remedy stuff, but at what cost to your sanity?

Yes you will kick yourselves, but hindsight is a wonderful thing so give yourselves a break.
The guy we hired was a good mate of one of our neighbours and had done some work for another neighbour so we thought we were on to a winner. You just can't tell sadly.

As a self employed person, I know how important my accountant is to me and there's no way if he'd recommended me to someone that I'd do a dodgy job!!

Oh ... and how do you all have Melinda Messenger?? We have a large bald guy presenting our show although he is quite a sweetie!!

Enjoy your lovely day out and let the stress wash away with the waves

Nothing to stop your DH applying for the show...

FBG - no way, he would never go on tele! I might try to persuade him...would be worth it, for several reasons, the free repair, and to see the look on the old builder's face as he is busted!

Something good today - spoke to the tip people - they take plasterboard and most of the other alsorted crap in the garden, and as we don't have a van we can do as many trips as we like. So while it will be a hard slog, we won't have to pay physical cash to remove much of the waste. And if there is anything left, we won't have to pay much to remove as it will only be a little. We are considering renting a trailer though, or trying to blag one from a friend (not sure if we know anyone though!) as they are happy for cars and trailers. I was having horrid visions of having to pay like £3-400 to remove it all. So, yey!

Let's hope that is the start of it all going better now.

Hope things are ok this morning.

any friends with a transit van, my dad has one and often does tip trips for friends and neighbours and daughter although we live 5mins from the ip so he always stops here for a cuppa. Its amazing what you can fit in a transit van

Glad things feeling better for you

Tues afternoon or Friday afternoon next week are good.

Hey. Building inspector and SE have agreed to meet at the property next week and thrash out this beam issue as SE still saying it is redundant and can be removed, but builders all not sure. Whatever is agreed as a course of action between them I shall get in writing. Nothing more from the shit of a builder. Good.

SE has said that if the third builder comes in at a price we can afford he would really really recommend that we take up the offer as he is the most experienced builder he knows and that if he is even considering doing it, he would bite his hand off. He said he wished he had pushed us more to get him to quote for the loft now.

Anyway. I feel so down it is unbeleivable. Not angry, or frustrated or upset, just tearful. Went to visit some friends yesterday and rather than cheer me up, I sat in their lovely home and felt so awful. The feeling in Chez Pavlov is morose today and the weather is shit so not helping.

Made worse by the fact we can't spend any money on baby til we get a quote as its going to take all our savings, maybe more, and that we went £5 over our overdraft yesterday because I did not remember to transfer money from one account to the other - 2 transactions, one of £1.50 and one of £3.50 so will get charged £35 per item plus £28 for going over limit. .

Banks and Builders - they are at the top of my hit list for robbing me.

Don't feel down you just need to get this sorted. To be honest I wouldn't listen to anymore of the SE recommendations I thought the first guy sounded like a good source, keen wanting the work. Builder 3 sounded like you should be grateful he's looking at the job which should never be the case. Also when he visited he is obviously aware you are under pressure, in a difficult situation and pregnant! yet still highlighted what a rough job I could of done much better for same money. Not helpful at the minute.

Good you've got BI on side structurally everything will be in order and also his say is final if it's not done properly he won't sign off.

Difficult to do so but the builders did say they thought a week so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

kc3 - Just had a disagreement about builder with DH! He is telling me, which he did not say before, that the builder no.3 is a friend of the Building inspector! builder no.3 told us that but i took no notice. Building inspector has hinted to Dh that he is a good one to go for, has not heard of builder no.1 and said builder no.3 supplies his firewood!

Both builders have said they will meet Building inspector on site, which is good. I liked the fact that the first builder said he would sort it all out for us, and seemed keen to fix it, don't like the attitude of builder no.3 but he is very very experienced and will get this done quickly and to a high standard. As DH said though, not sure whether us liking the builder particularly should have much of a bearing right now as we liked the first builder, to start with and that judgment was completely flawed so we are not relying on 'instincts' this time.

Although I do agree not to put much sway on what the SE says. Problem is he is highly reputable, apart from this builder we used. everyone seems to have heard of the SE and seem surprised this has gone so badly wrong with him recommending the builder.

Maybe we will just toss a coin!

Pav I think with this new bit of info that maybe you should go for builder no. 3. He does sound a little arrogant with his 'I'm doing you a favour' attitude ... but then you're not looking for a friend are you?
If his reputation stands well with both the BI and the SE then it must be based on fact, and also shows that his work is quality right the way through the process - i.e. from initial discussions of plans with SE right through to completion certificates with BI.

All you want now is someone very good to come in and finish the job. Who knows, maybe no. 3's pride will then be a help in that he will go the extra mile when he's on the job to make sure it's a quality finish?
Go with no. 3 and then just have (more) days out and don't get into too much conversation with him, so you don't get annoyed by his attitude!

As for the bank - phone them and complain that the charges are excessive for the amount overdrawn. When they start giving you the usual 'well that's our t's and c's' line, tell them that you will instigate a complaint on the bank charges and will be claiming back all charges ever associated with your account.
As all the claims people have been making have gone in their favour, and still are, I'd imagine they would reimburse you the charges 'as an act of good faith' to avoid having to pay out more.
Certainly worth a phone call on Monday

Gosh - Pavlov, it's a hard one especially when you've put all your faith in someone before and it's gone wrong.

Personally the SE is the last person I'd be listening to, regardless of how well respected he is. I'd be really wary of his mate TBH...sorry if that's me being a bit

Can you not get builder 1 AND 3 to both quote. Seems to me that you've got one heck of a lot riding on this and you have to actually interview these guys....you both need to be in the driving seat; not the SE (and his glowing reputation) and most definately not the builder.

Perhaps you'll get some clarity when you see them both again and the building inspector. If this beam turns out to be a supporting structure then personally I'd be less likely to take recommendations from the SE!

No, you don't have to like a builder but arrogance is not a quality they need to have - pride comes before a fall. Give it another meeting and perhaps some quotes to roll in before you decide. Keep us posted

pav so sorry you're still in a quagmire of decision-making. Whatever you decide this week I hope that it allows you to relax a bit and take stock. I bet you'll feel deflated and teary again afterwards as your body catches up with the trauma you've been going through, but I hope that you'll come through with a pg air of calm and composure in the end! Your day out to the beach sounds idyllic - fingers crossed the weather will allow many more before D day!

FWIW #3's experience may sway me more than #2's niceness given your experience (unless you can see some of #1's work).

jeanie builder is recommended by SE, but is friends of building inspector. We are going to get a quote from both. DH does not want to get a quote on any more as he has had enough, but I am thinking I might like a couple more.

We had a good productive weekend - friend looked after DD yesterday, overnight and this morning so we have started on the front room. Give us a sense of control back. Its not anywhere near done, but it helps. Apart from friend's then coming in and saying how shit the loft looks, makes me feel awful again. Or saying 'you sure you want that colour in the front room?' oh fuck off will ya if you can't be supportive? I would like someone to come in and say 'this will look awesome once you have it finished, lofts are meant to be querky, blah blah' one of my friends said that but only after I told them to stop being so bloody negative and then got upset. .

I came across your post by chance - so glad I did; I got plans done for an extension plus loft conversion last year. Three separate builders were recommended to us and of those one said the job was too big - fine. Second gave verbal quote then nothing - chased him up twice and he never got back to us. Third one had copies of the plans, made an appoitment to call and never turned up or phoned! - At which point the recession started to take hold and I felt it was probably best to leave things til the financial climate started to improve. Today I 'had' made the decision to look into new builders and go ahead with the extension but after reading of your horrific experience I think it'll be easier to move house! Hope all works out well for you and that you can enjoy the last weeks of your pregnancy

It will look great when you're finished, that's for certain!

Any news on the quotes yet and whether they are reasonable? Hopefully you won't end up too out of pocket. Most people end up paying more than they originally anticipated anyway (the house causing unforseen problems for example) so keep that in mind.

Mixtures - i've been renovating my house and started getting quotes last year. Had some right crooks round and some who just ignored me altogether. The ones that ignored me to begin with have been frantically trying to get in touch since the recession really kicked in.

MrsSixx - we are considering DD going up there, least to start with. I feel it is all so raw that I am not sure I will enjoy being up there at first. I think I will constantly look and be anxious/sad about the things I cannot change (I am a dweller) rather than enjoy the additional space. If we stay put and DD goes up, we will get to enjoy the space it gives us, a much larger property.

There were always advantages to DD going up there, (in particular her not having access to the kitchen/bathroom at night time, us being on the same floor as new baby when he goes into his own room, more space to put all our baby related things in our current room as it is a big room, bigger built in cupboards in current room etc) which we had pushed to one side as we wanted the new room! But, I feel that maybe right now these practical advantages would give me the time to enjoy having the additional room so that the wounds will fade. I said to DH that I think in 6 months I will feel differently once I am used to it all and time has passed,, I am sure it will. He thinks the same, but is not sure about DD going up there, mainly as we have spent a lot of time getting her used to the idea of changing rooms to ours.

We will think about it.

Typically none of the builders have come back with a price yet. Builder 3 said he would get back to us either yesterday or today by email with a quote but nothing so far. DH had mailed him the plans. Builder 1 said he would discuss price with us tomorrow when he comes to look att he floor again as he wants to check its ok. Builder 2 said he would quote us as a back up, not expecting him to pull through. We have also had a price from another person, a general builder who is just getting back into the profession after some time out. His work is good, but he is a carpenter really and does kitchens and bathrooms, not lofts, and he will employ a plasterer and price includes plastering (he said he would contract him) However he was quite cheap and keen to impress. We have put him on hold as we are not necessarily wanting a loft specialist now, we want some-one with an eye for detail which he does have (as long as structure is ok).

Mixtures - we realise now there are lots of great builders out there but they are really hard to find, and they are not cheap. Unfortunately it is only on the back of this mess up that we are starting to find out the good builders, the ones we wish we knew about when we first started the project, Don't let it put you off, just research as well as you can who you use.

The BI said to us, always always check out with them first. I said to him I did not not think they could recommend and he said not officially but they will speak in a certain language which you need to pay attention to, such as the less they say about a builder they have heard of the more you should read into it! He said they will do their best to indicate whether you should steer clear! He also said though (which applied to us) that just because they have not heard of the builder, or recall them does not mean they are no good as many are. Just not ours!

Psv good thinking about putting DD up there if you're a dweller - last thing you want is lying in bed looking at parts of the room and thinking 'that should have been x' or 'that looks wrong' etc.
Can you sell it to DD as having a princess room like rapunzel up in the top of the tower? or what/whoever she's into?
Think if you have more space on the first floor then that would be much easier with a baby and all their stuff.
DS went into his room at 4 months and we were in the loft. I spent another few months doing night feeds sitting on the stairs as I was on a different floor. Not fun with a winter baby! He was fine as he was in his grobag, I was freezing!