My F**king Builder.

[PavlovtheForgetfulCat]

He took all his tools last week, after receiving an agreed additional payment (from the final that we owe him) To clear the loft for the final lot of plastering he said. To be able to gain perspective he said. (he did not do this last time he plastered and there is only remedial plastering to do now up there, the rest is on the stairs, hallway etc). He talked to us about this and that, all nice.

After about 30 mins, I became a bit suspicious, again that he might have done a runner as he took everything apart from a yellow bucket. He took is ladder, why would you do this if you were plastering at height? Anyway, I am naturally suspicious. It is part of my job, it is part of my make-up. DH was a bit worried too, but we put it down to being nervous about this job. And I reminded myself of his reassuring conversation about him completing and DH and I agreed we were being unecessarily suspicious.

He was not coming in monday he said, bank holiday, out with the kids, he said.

This morning, he did not show. Did not answer his mobile. DH and I have been panicking. Eventually at 11am he phones.

And he said:

His younger brother has been rushed to hospital, is critical, collapsed lung (he only has one apparantly) and next 48 hours are critical. it had only just happened. He would try to get his plasterer mate to help him out.

Now. I am very cynical. DH said, initially, he appeared genuine. But DH is a very forgiving person and sees the best in everyone. I don't. DH started to doubt whether this was the truth or a blag. But, we are very nervous about whether this is true or not.

I actually want it to be true, so he that it means he has not done a runner with most of our money and left us in a hellhole. Does not make me a nice person I feel But then I also think he is very elaborate with his stories, has been so far and this smacks of some bullshit.

Either way, this week is dead for any work. and I am getting closer to my due date. And now, calm, chilled relaxed DH is starting to pull his hair out.

Sorry. Half of you probably won't even know what on earth I am banging on about but I needed to vent as I am so annoyed and upset and stressed and fed up it is unreal. I have no space. I am not sleeping as I am sharing with a toddler who talks in her sleep and a DH who is smoking too much and therefore snoring.

Oh Pav, I hadn't realised this was still ongoing. You poor thing.

If you are not doing so already write down everything that has happened and being said for when you do bring a case. At the very least he should get struck off the builders whatdoyoucallit.

FBG I will just print off this thread.

Good idea.

Could he sue you for defamation?

Only if it is not true.

And he would have a hard time proving that

No, because it's true

DB I don't think it is going to end. It certainly feels like it is forever going to be a milestone around our necks.

Well, I have stopped crying at least. Replaced by a weird mix of fear and emptiness. Not sure if that makes sense.

Poor DH made a fab tea and we just can't face it, either of us.

on your behalf

We are shifting position. How fickle am I?

There is so much remedial work for the builder to do. Not for building regs, that part of it is fine, but for the job to be good, i feel like I need to challenge the builder (old one) on it and try to make him finish it better, or at least some of it. For example. When he ripped up the floor to fix it, he put down old floorboards, did not buttress them together, just hammered them down with nails. It is shoddy and they need replacing.

So we are thinking that we might give him 2 weeks to do the entire project, to include remedying all the problems that he has caused, repairing damaged flooring, etc etc, with no monetary advance from us. He is to agree by monday morning in writing of his agreement to complete all on the list. If he choses to either not do it, or cannot do it, or starts it and does not finish, we will terminate contract, he will fofeit monies owed and we will seek legal advice with a view to suing him.

In the meantime we will have a backup builder in reserve, we have met legal demands, and more than that we have paved the way to legitimately sue him for the additional costs we are going to incur.

Likely he will not do it, so we will continue as planned, but knowing he is legally fucked, not just morally. And if he does it. Great. He won't be able to fob us off as at the end of the contract, if the work is not complete to our satisfaction, we will terminate contract and sue him.

If he choses to do it, he must comply with whatever building regs tell him to do re the beam, and we will not enter into any daily discussions, he will come in, do the work, leave.

What do you think? Or shall I just fucking sack him? The letter is ready to post terminating. I just need to stop dithering.

What a shit storm!

I am sorry to read what you are going through. I am at the tailend of a year long (yes year) renovation myself and got so stressed at times I started pulling my own hair out (am also preggers). I only own a terraced house, anyone would think I was renovating Buckingham f*cking Palace! I have had to put up with a rip off architect (never again) and shoddy tradesmen too.

Stress is the last thing you need right now and I hope this bastard gets his comeuppance sooner rather than later. Try and keep yourself focused on the finished house and how happy you and your family will be there when it's finished. It WILL be finished and soon. OK it's going to cost you a little more but you can't put a price on your sanity and happiness.

Incidentally, where in the UK are you? I am in Gloucestershire. If that's close to you and you want any recommendations please let me know. I have definitely found some gems along the way!

Well I would do what you're proposing - give him one last chance to remedy the work before sacking. But (at the risk of sounding like a broken record) I would get some legal advice before making any decision on how to proceed. You've got nothing to lose by getting advice, and sometimes just phrasing a formal letter in the correct legal terms can show you really mean business and it will become clear that you're putting things on a formal legal footing.

I don't know Pavlov. I am not sure I could have him in my house for 2 weeks knowing he didn't want to be there and I didn't want him there. I think the 2 weeks could seem very long and the atmosphere would be horrendous.

I am also not sure that I would trust that he would do things right.

Buda - I don't trust him either. But I am also thinking he will not be able to physically do it.

daisy I will call the legal people today, promise!

I have been up much of the night thinking, worrying, feeling upset, going over and over in my head what the best course of action is, for us, not for him. I am not interested in giving him the chance to fix it. He will mess it up without a shadow of a doubt. He is incompetent beyond belief, but I am just thinking of how we can perhaps protect ourselves against the additional costs by ensuring we do it correctly. I am not worrying about him sueing us, as I have said, he really would not not dare, he has too much to lose, but, the costs are mounting already for us to remedy this elsewhere and while I doubt we will ever get a penny from him, I would like to at least take him to court and win, in principle at least.

But then. I think about even seeing him again and I get so angry it is untrue.

I have emailed noddy's too, to get some advice from her as she went down the tradng standards route.

mrssix thank you so much for your offer - we are in South Devon so too far unfortunately. How horrendous for you as well

I really don't know what the best thing to do is Pavlov. Other than castrating the guy with a stiletto!

I wonder is Melinda Messenger still doing her 'Cowboy Builders' show? You could set her and her sidekick Dominic on him!

Pavlov - I asked my DP what he thought about getting him back....he just shot me a look as if to say you were mad! (sorry, we've been discussing this thread as though it affected us!)

This is what he said....

A builder only has to adhere to building regs...and they don't cover the actual finish/quality of the work - just the structural aspect. The builder clearly f*cked up from the start so the chances are that his skill base/tools/workman aren't actually up to the job. Thing is - it's virtually impossible to sue for bad work. DP has seen work that has passed building regs because it's structurally sound....but has actually knocked down the value of the property because it's so dire.
His advice was....don't go there! It'll be more heartache and you'll be less likely to get a builder to finish the job without having to literally rip it out and start again. You'll not claim a penny off him as he'll go bankrupt and then just go as a sole trader....happens all the time.

Buda my DP loves that Cowboy builder show...he always sits there open mouthed.

buda I have actually seen how to apply for that show. I was so so tempted, honestly I was. But my job has a clause in it which stops me from putting myself in the spotlight. Shame. I would love to do it. They fix it all for you don't they?

jean that is where we are at I think. That is what I in particular think. If he comes back and puts in fire doors, we will need to rip them down as they will be shit. If we ask him to do something else, he will do it badly. I think, even if we give him the chance to fix it and he tries, or he does not try, we will still need to get someone in to fix it.

Agree Pavlov - I think you don't want that man messing up any more! Little jobs will become mountainous problems.

I'm not sure what you do for a living - but couldn't you claim to have become a nervous wreck and wear a bag on your head throughout the entire show - saying you can't face the world. Be a small price to pay for getting it all done free

They do fix it for you Pavlov. And your DH would get to watch Melinda in the flesh as it were! Shame you can't do it.

I think I would listen to jeanjeannie's DP's good advice. You would end up having him in your house for 2 weeks, the atmosphere would be awful, and you know full well that he will do the bare minimum to satisfy building regulations but that will be it.

I think i would go with the first guy that came around yesterday - he sounded as if he knew what he was talking about and he sounded nice. So hopefully would not charge you the earth and would actually take pride in getting it all sorted for you.

I told DH about Melinda Messenger hosting it, and he said 'she is a minger' I was a little surprised!

would be quite a lot of fun wouldn't it?

You need to be sure that if you do sack him, he doesn't try and say that he wasn't given the opportunity to repair the work. If you sack him by letter, be sure and show how he has already failed to meet deadlines, that you acted in good faith by advancing him money, that you have given him numerous opportunities to finish the job.

ilovemydog - yes, done! I will check with legal people to make sure i am not puttin my foot in it.

DH is also going to phone him today. Say what he really wants to put in the letter but cannot.

Just spoke to the 1st builder - he has spoken to building inspector, who wants to meet with him on site to discuss the beam, along with architect. He sounds promising, but DH likes the last one, the one who made us cry! Because he has been a builder for a long time, because he has done 62 loft conversions, because he said he would quote us to 'finish the job', although I suspect his price is going to be astronomical, it might put him out of the running on that basis alone. He made it clear the favour he was doing for the architect/engineer was not a good price, but that fact that he was even considering the job.

All builders, an the chippie/plasterer all reckon 1 weeks worth of work.

Gosh - I suppose we all have different tastes! I wouldn't have said she was a minger. But I am just a girl, what do I know? I think she is pretty. Anyway. That's not getting the house sorted is it?

Am all out of suggestions I'm afraid. Although in my previous life in Vietnam it was very cheap to take a contract out on someone so could maybe call on some people for you??? (That is obviously a joke btw in case some earnest folk come along and think i was serious!) Although we wouldn't actually cause any harm to the guy it is nice to fantasize sometimes!

buda don't worry I have had fantasies about how in a different world I would stitch this guy up in the same vein as romantic thoughts of a famous person ! I am still considering dumping all the stuff from our garden into his, on the basis some of it might be re-useable by him, you know on the basis of 'you appear to have left some material in my garden, we thought you would need it seeing as you are so hard up' I still might do that, much better than hiring a hitman as I think i might lose my job if I get done for murder

Pav sorry to hear this is still going on. Hadn't realised you had this thread running or I'd have popped in before.

From my past experience I'd go with builder no.1 - yes the last one sounds like he's good too, and has been doing it for years, but this isn't a job from scratch - it's worse for whoever takes it on as they don't know what they might find hidden. Builder no.1 is saying that he will meet on site with the SE and the inspector and they will all go through it together - that's what you need at this stage.
When our builder went off our job, the only way we got it all rectified was by having meets with the new guy and the inspector on site to go through what was needed.

How soon can they start?

Also, while I can understand why a builder doesn't want to take a job on halfway through (pride at the finish etc.) you need someone that is willing to get over that - think of the Cowboy Trap programme - they all get over whether the bad start will make their work look less than 100% as their desire to help out someone who's been a victim of their fellow tradesmen wins through.

I know who I'd rather have.

Hahahaha Buda - in Russia (previous life) they're very keen on that way of sorting out/terminating a situation and I'd be lying if I'd not thought of it for Pavlov

I also think Melinda is nice...she seems nice...doesn't wind me up like other big-toothed, svelt ladies on telly.