Buying a London flat and moving back there in my mid 50s after separation...thoughts/experience?

[JandLandG]

I'm an empty nester and separated - mid 50s.

This time next year, we're selling the family house, going our separate ways and splitting the loot - no mortgage on it anymore.

I moved out a couple of years ago into a nice flat - bliss! (Wasting money on rent, sadly, but...that's coming through my wages and am happy to do so for 2/3 years).

Anyway, for a long time I've thought of moving back to London. Haven't lived there since the 90s, but often there, tbh.

75 per cent of my work is there these days, a couple of our bigger kids live there after Uni - not sure where the youngest one will go to uni yet.

Have always been a regular visitor to London and always enjoyed it. Friends there/near.

So, I'm gonna go back there while I have still have the energy...hopefully.

Even if it's just for 2/3 years maybe.

No chance of retirement for me - freelance for 25 yrs and not much of a pension really.

Budget: 400k -ish.

Area: Zone 1 preferably. Bloomsbury would be my dream...but I may change that.

Any thoughts?

I hear flats are very difficult to sell atm...good for prices going down/cheeky offers, but that may prove a problem down the line for me.

It'd be 2k a month on rent if I took that option; I think I'm gonna buy, tbh. Big deposit, small-ish mortgage - maybe 10k moving costs inc legal and stamp duty.

Pros?

Cons?

Thoughts/experiences?

I imagine myself gadding around town from galleries to coffee shops to theatres and bars - the reality would be quite different, I'm sure, but...maybe a bit of that, come on - I can dream!

Anyway...let me know if you think I'm mad, or am onto something.

Also, buying ex local authority housing looks the best bet for space/value; my kids have lived in those flats as students for a while...any thoughts on that as a potential option?

Thanking you in advance - and apologies for the lengthy ramble.

I’ve recently bought in zone 2 and I love it. I know it wasn’t the best financial decision given service charge and flats falling in value right now but I’m happy here and plan to be here long term.
In zone 1 service charge can be high without any services for your money other than a lift.
Also you need to check out basic services like a NHS GP, how easy deliveries are, can a moving company easily park, are other flats in the block professionals or students, is airb&b allowed (and if not is it enforced), what weird rules are there in the lease(we have rules about the colour of the blinds).

Best of luck

The freeholder can't usually refuse to extend the lease but It will be hugely expensive. At least 50k probably more (although leasehold reform is on the horizon). You don't have to extend but it will make it more difficult to sell.

I think it depends on the type of block and residences. If some of the flats have council / ha tenants they don't pay for works so more falls on the owner occupiers. Also some councils/ housing associations are less scrupulous about getting best value and being transparent

Second this 100%. My SIL lives in an ex LA flat and has had exactly the same experience- enormous charges being made for works which are then delayed or in some cases not done at all, no control or oversight of any of it and a huge fight with the council to get her money back. Charges being made for things like lift repairs when there is no lift in the building etc and dodgy contractors who claim work has been done when it hasn't, knowing nobody at the council will check. Personally I would not buy ex LA for this reason.

The facts are that most flats in London are leasehold. I really hope leasehold reform will start to change all of it, soon, but for now that is where we are.

However, not all freeholders are created equal. The positive of the council as the freeholder is they are FAR more accountable than a private freeholder. If they replace the windows for example they have to send you the quotes they got etc etc and they do actually fix stuff when you ask for it.

Private freeholders can charge you whatever they like for whatever they like, and mine frequently did! They also are far less responsive to repairs, as I found out when water poured through my roof. Will the council freeholder I would have called their emergency team and had it sorted quickly.

It’s not practical to write off all leasehold properties in London. I would avoid a building with a lift.

Final note on the scaffolding - and I know this from having scaffolding up for longer than needed for a job - scaffolding companies commonly leave scaffolding up if they don’t need it for the next job, then come and get it when they do. Saves them storing it and putting it up and down more. Crazy but true. They don’t charge more for it, it’s usually a fixed price so your friend shouldn’t have been charged more this.

Very useful - thanks so much for this Munchie.

Quick query though - if I own the property, who the LA to come along and make decisions about the doors or windows?

Is it bc they're the leaseholders? They're effectively a landlord?

Seems very intrusive and onerous when the flat's bright and paid for - is that just part of living in a leasehold property?

Good info - new to me...but that would do my head in! Get off my stuff!!!😝

Have you thought about Euston? Might represent better value for money, but Bloomsbury is super safe, lots of action around Brunswick Centre and Marchmont St, I don't blame you for wanting to move there.

Also try kings X, lots of local authority flats there for under 400k.

We are under Camden in WC1 and council tax still quite high, parking permits quite costly. Just something to factor in.

This is possibly the greatest post in the history of Mumsnet - I salute you, exexpat!

Thank you so much- v v v useful 🙏🙏🙏

@JandLandG If you're buying a flat it will either be freehold or leasehold. That relates to who owns the land it's built on and usually who is responsible for the fabric of the whole building (eg walls, roof, windows, communal areas etc).

If it's a freehold building then you would usually own a share of that freehold with the other flat owners. That can either be managed by a company that you set up between you where you formalise costs (ideal situation) or it's just shared and managed between you as freeholders on a sort of PAYG basis (can get messy if one or other of the owners won't chip in for maintenance). Legally you pay each other a peppercorn rent.

On the other hand if it's a leasehold property then another party (a private freeholder/landowner which is often the local authority) own the freehold and are therefore responsible for repairs to the building structure in the same way, but crucially they can pass those costs on to you as the leaseholder, often without transparency. And many London LAs are so badly managed that they screw you over for those costs, as previously mentioned.

Another eg - friend of mine doing renovations to her privately owned leasehold ex-LA flat wants to change the rear window into a French door out into the garden. She has had to effectively buy the window off the LA by paying 1000s for a 'license to alter' in order to do the works.

@JandLandG You're welcome!

Also, listening to Burnham's speech earlier, he has promised to bring in a leasehold reform bill before the end of the year, so there is a smidgen of hope that some of the issues other posters have raised may have improved by the time you are actually flat-hunting.

London nightlife is quite different than in the 90s. A lot of people have migrated to the outer zones because zones 1/2 are just so expensive. In some areas (think Farringdon) you'll struggle to find a pub or bar on a regular Friday / Saturday night that is even remotely lively. People live and socialise further out. I'd not look in central London - I'd find a nice neighborhood in zones 3/4.

Thanks so much for this, v much appreciated.

Have been out in Dalston recently with my big kids - blimey, it's properly unreconstructed, isn't it?!

I was surprised places like that still existed in London, tbh, but there we go...not bad on a Monday night out at the Vortex Jazz club.

Anyway, yes...I take your point and thanks for the example, but that's a small place for a relatively big price tbh...I think Southwark is further in and not as trendy, so you get a little bit more for your money, maybe?

I reckon my budget will be 425 tops - not a lot, but it'll have to do, unfortunately; I'm not taking on any more debt than I have to - a small mortgage only.

Anyway, I hear the flats market is absolutely tanking...long may it continue...I'll snaffle a bargain off some rich kids who's mum and dad bought it for them anyway...😝

You can get a lot for £425k in southeast London, starting from very central (Southwark, Borough) and heading out into zone 2 (quite nice riverside bits of Bermondsey, Deptford, Greenwich etc) - two bedrooms rather than one, nicer blocks.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/93657456#/?channel=RES_BUY This is right by Tower Bridge - it's not exactly Bloomsbury, but lots of buzz, handy for transport, walkable to a lot of London culture.

I was haunting Rightmove and making trips to London to scout out likely areas for several years before I made the move - if your adult DC are already there, that should give you lots of opportunities to get a feel for possible places.

That's a good shout, tbh - and about a quarter of a mile from my daughter's new place.

I'm sure she'd be delighted to see me moving in so close!

Look at this do-er upper in the Brunswick Centre...I'd be down there tomorrow morning if I thought I could get my hands on this....oh, god - I'd be in heaven!

I am the leaseholder and the LA is the landlord. The LA are responsible for the maintenance of the "outside" of the building. So the roof and windows etc are down to them. When they need replacing everyone has to chip in. I do not know how it affects council tenants - whether they pay anymore rent or not (probably not) but I do not think that the amount of council tenants in the block has any impact on how much leaseholders pay. ie cost per resident is worked out and leaseholders have to pay their share.

In terms of the door - that was maybe a post Grenfell thing as in all council properties have to have a "fire door" one that passes LFB rules and regulations. The door that I originally had might have passed with some adaptions eg it needs to close on its own and I could have fitted a self closing device but in the end it just seemed like a better idea to get a specified replacement.

They may one day decide to put an entry phone system for access to the block with new block doors and I will be liable for that.

Overall I cannot really see how private landlords would be any better and from what I have read are likely to be worse. The council has to be upfront and transparent about what it does and show costings - private landlords not so much.

What are you on?! 🤣

unless you’re accustomed to staying in palatial hotel suites a flat is most definitely not comparable to a hotel room!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/156078956#/?channel=RESBUY Near Angel which is such a lovely buzzy area! I’d live there in a heartbeat.

The only thing is the studio /bedroom

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/87482343#/?channel=RES_BUY

Use your imagination!
Of course 99% of London flats are literally bigger than a hotel room!
I said it would be LIKE one. It would feel like it because you could only have your essential belongings with no room for storage.
is that clear now?

It’s not a given that a small flat doesn’t have storage space though.

Why is this worth arguing over ?
Yes, you would have room for day to day things.
But not really room for actual storage of things not in regular use.
I believe my point was in the context of of someone used to living in a house and I was pointing out that she would no longer have a garage/ loft etcetera available for things not in regular use.
I’m sure someone can pick a hole in what I ‘m saying but I think I’ve made my point clear in the context of OP thinking of downsizing.

Why is this worth arguing over ?
Why indeed You seem to have a bit of a thing about it.
You've already (more than once) suggested to the OP that it might be hard for various reasons, and she's politely refuted your concerns and given reasons why she's not worried about storage space. Or have you not read her replies?

You’ve got me really confused!
I haven’t got a thing about anything!
Yes, I’ve raised points for consideration and OP has replied cheerfully and I was perfectly happy with the situation,
I really don’t know what you’re going on about. 😳

Calm down, please, ladies - play nicely!

Teebs, as of now, I have pared my possessions and belongings down to what I deem to be useful, beautiful, or both.

Virtually the only thing I "store" are the Christmas deccies, really.

That's not quite true - I still have stuff in the marital home and when we sell to divide up the loot, I'll have to wade through 20 odd years of family life and have a clearout...

I might bung anything I don't want in the flat but don't want to get rid of in storage - about 20 odd quid a week not too far from us.

Anyway, that's for the future - but I've been planning ahead for this - and you fab MN lot are helping me with more info/prespectives, so thank you all again.

But stop arguing!