Buying a London flat and moving back there in my mid 50s after separation...thoughts/experience?

[JandLandG]

I'm an empty nester and separated - mid 50s.

This time next year, we're selling the family house, going our separate ways and splitting the loot - no mortgage on it anymore.

I moved out a couple of years ago into a nice flat - bliss! (Wasting money on rent, sadly, but...that's coming through my wages and am happy to do so for 2/3 years).

Anyway, for a long time I've thought of moving back to London. Haven't lived there since the 90s, but often there, tbh.

75 per cent of my work is there these days, a couple of our bigger kids live there after Uni - not sure where the youngest one will go to uni yet.

Have always been a regular visitor to London and always enjoyed it. Friends there/near.

So, I'm gonna go back there while I have still have the energy...hopefully.

Even if it's just for 2/3 years maybe.

No chance of retirement for me - freelance for 25 yrs and not much of a pension really.

Budget: 400k -ish.

Area: Zone 1 preferably. Bloomsbury would be my dream...but I may change that.

Any thoughts?

I hear flats are very difficult to sell atm...good for prices going down/cheeky offers, but that may prove a problem down the line for me.

It'd be 2k a month on rent if I took that option; I think I'm gonna buy, tbh. Big deposit, small-ish mortgage - maybe 10k moving costs inc legal and stamp duty.

Pros?

Cons?

Thoughts/experiences?

I imagine myself gadding around town from galleries to coffee shops to theatres and bars - the reality would be quite different, I'm sure, but...maybe a bit of that, come on - I can dream!

Anyway...let me know if you think I'm mad, or am onto something.

Also, buying ex local authority housing looks the best bet for space/value; my kids have lived in those flats as students for a while...any thoughts on that as a potential option?

Thanking you in advance - and apologies for the lengthy ramble.

Hey, thanks for the thoughts - I'd certainly squeeze in my keyboard and guitars, so would have my hobbies available.

And I might sneak some booze in occasionally too ofc!

I would worry about a flat if we have summers like the one we have just had. I don't know if it's possible to have air conditioning for example. I think some flat dwellers really suffered this year.

Seriously, my advice would be not to buy a 12th floor flat. Small block of 4 floors max without a lift and you look for a ground floor property. I've lived high up, loved sitting on my balcony with a glass of wine when the kids were in bed looking across London. Then every March the service charge bill came and my love of high rise living swiftly changed 🤣.

I used to have an ex LA 2 bed flat in zone 1. Generous sized rooms but the sound insulation was awful. I have been in 4 new builds since and absolutely love the warmth and sound proofing. I haven't heard any neighbours in years. I had all my radiators removed as we haven't turned them on in 7 years so we save a lot on heating. Downsides, service charges are high but we save that in heating so I don't mind. With warmer summers I am looking at air con options. Otherwise so much to do for free. Can't think of anywhere better to be in your 50's and onwards. My friends parents did just that and are living the dream.

lol. Yes, I'd say deffo rent first because it kind of sounds as if you are scratching in the dark re your ideas of what neighbourhoods are actually like 😂

I always thought I'd like a flat in the City of London. Lots going on in the week, easy to walk anywhere, markets, museums, art galleries, Barbican theatre, and the easiest transport connections. At the weekend, its a different place - calm, peaceful and so little traffic. Its worth looking at.

I was born and grew up in central London. Sometimes I have the same fantasy about returning in my retirement, but when I go back to where I came from , the reality hits that those areas have changed irrevocably. Both in terms of the actual physical environment- in some cases so much building work has made an area look totally different- and in terms of the demographics - a complete change to 40 years ago. You might be ok with that, but for me it was a realisation that it was no longer the place it was and so it was no longer what I was looking for. I decided to stick with visits to the theatres, etc.
But good luck and I hope you find somewhere nice.

I think moving into London at your stage of life is a great idea.

BUT

I would look for a flat with a share of freehold . This avoids the shortening lease issue as well as sky high ground rent and maintenance charges over which you have no control.

You don’t want to be forced to work just to pay service charges on a flat.

Public transport is so good you really don’t need to be slap bang in Zone 1.

Bloomsbury is just tourists at the weekend.

Somewhere with a good health centre, supermarket, cafes with local custom and a local community can be found on good tube / transport routes. You will get your O/60 Oyster and much better use of your money.

Have you been paying NI contributions? For a state pension?

Don’t dismiss Southwark. There are loads of 1930s and immediate post-war HA and ex LA flats that are solid and reasonably spacious. I live just off Borough High Street, and the location is amazing - within walking distance of the South Bank and Soho, four close tube stations, close to hospitals, loads of local shops as well as Borough Market. There’s a real buzz, yet it’s quiet at night and perfectly safe for a woman on her own late at night. Our flats have a large garden maintained by the Tenants and Residents’ Association. My flat is on the NW corner of the building, and it hasn’t been too hot all summer.

Do it! I moved back to London as an empty-nester in my 50s, and I am doing all the sorts of things you say you'd want to do and can heartily recommend it for our age group and older.

It's amazing how much there is to do without spending a huge amount of money - just get on the right mailing lists, pick a membership or two and you can be out every night at free events or West End theatres for under £20. I'm still a couple of years off getting my 60+ Oyster card, but once I do, it will be even better.

I rather fancied the idea of Bloomsbury too, but really wanted a bit more space and a garden, which was not available in my budget round there, so have ended up with a large maisonette in zone 2.

I still have plenty of 'buzz' on my doorstep (cinema, theatre, music venues, shops, restaurants, cafes, galleries and so on) and it's a short hop into central London, but there is also more green space, and much quieter streets once you step away from the main busy areas. One of my DC lived right in the thick of it (just off Tottenham Court Road) for several years, and while it was great being able to walk everywhere, you could never really get anywhere without battling through crowds. They also really felt the lack of a garden or balcony during the Covid years.

Better communities in the London 'villages', real people living the London life; galleries and theatre often only 10.mimutes on the train or underground and plenty of cafes and exhibitions locally. 400k in zones 2 and 3 will get you a decent flat.

If I were to move back to London it would be central or nothing for me. I lived in Camden and whilst I loved it we only really did local things and I know I'd fall into the same trap.

When I visit I'm central because it's easy. I've fancied getting the river boat as my local transportation rather than a long way on the northern line.

400k in my area (nice but not posh, zone 2) would buy you bugger all. 500k maybe , in a pinch.

My relative has moved to London mid 70s, no regrets. V easy to get around and meet people. Buying a 1/2 bed (with garden) for around 450k in zone 2/3

Once again - thanks, so, so much for all your input here...I'm just thinking out loud really, but it's nice to cast around for MN hive-mind experiences and perspectives - it's all taken on board.

I'm really thinking this is definitely going to be my thing to do, tbh - within 18 months, once the house is sold and I've got my share of the loot from it.

We'll see.

Anyway, while I'm on - a related question

Just looking at options maybe I buy a flat for cash with a low leasehold period left - they're much cheaper, obviously.

So, could anyone advise me on the intricacies of buying a flat with a short number of years leasehold on it (say, below 30) and getting that leasehold extended back up above 125 yrs, say?

Is this just a matter of going through a legal process and paying?

Or is it at the behest of the leasehold owner who could refuse if they wanted?

A risk, obviously.

I'd still have a place to live, but a decreasing value as the leasehold duration fell.

Is this even a thing?

Someone must be buying flats like this; there are quite a few of them when I search - nice places in nice locations but much cheaper than other options solely bc they have a low number of years left on the leasehold.

So...any experience/knowledge welcomed if anyone has a sec.

🙏

This is all very encouraging, exexpat - thanks so much.

I'm intrigued - what are "the right mailing lists, pick a membership or two and you can be out every night at free events or West End theatres for under £20."

I'd love some further info, tbh - would be very grateful.

You're pretty much the same age as me...nice to hear you're living the life!

@JandLandG we bought a flat with a shortish lease (maybe about 80 years) in zone 2. When we came to sell it 5 years later, we were told we wouldn't get any buyers without increasing the leasehold. The freehold was held by the downstairs neighbour who agreed to extend it for £25k. We needed all our spare money as a deposit for our next place so negotiated reducing the cost to the buyers of £25k which they would then pay to the freeholder.

So it's possible but was slightly complicated and quite stressful at the time. I probably wouldn't have bought a flat with such a low lease but we were renting it and got a decent deal.

@JandLandG this is an excellent website for advice on all things leasehold-related. Extending leases on short-lease flats is due to get easier when planned new legislation comes in, but that hasn't happened yet.

https://www.lease-advice.org/lease-extension/flats/

Just another warning about leasehold and particularly ex-LA flats in central London. The service and maintenance charges can be unpredictable, sporadic and horrific. A friend owns her ex-LA flat in Zone 2 and basically has to write a blank cheque every few years for works that take months instead of days/weeks. In the latest round scaffolding has been up for "roof repairs" since early July, they have been on site only twice in that time, meanwhile she's being charged for extended scaffolding hire. Last year it was guttering works where again the scaffolding was up for 4 months for a one day job, at her expense, they finally sent someone to fix the broken pipe, charged her £600, only for the pipe to break again weeks later. She got someone to fix it privately in the end. Like you she's a single woman in her 50s and finds it hugely stressful, they do not conmunicate and fighting these charges is often impossible.

It's not as simple as "you need to budget this much extra per year" because they are free to clobber you with one off repair charges whenever they see fit. And this is a terrace conversion with just two flats, let alone a bigger block with charges for communal lifts etc.

Another friend owned an ex-LA flat and was charged £30k one year for his "share" of window repairs, even though they painted them all shut! The owners had to file a class action against the council in the end.

I have lived in Zone 2 for 20+ years and cannot imagine living anywhere else when I retire so totally get your motivation for the move but given your lack of pension please be careful with the hidden costs!

Extremely useful. Thank you so much.

I will ofc do my own research as I gear up towards this, but that's great - really appreciate it

This is good advice. A well-managed building should have a healthy reserve/sinking fund set aside for major works so that leaseholders don't get hit with large unexpected costs. Definitely a question to ask if you are looking at this type of flat.

OK, so a few of the things I have found

• seat-filling mailing lists like The Audience Club and Central Tickets - you sign up and get daily emails for shows looking to fill seats for very low prices or even for free. A lot of them are fairly fringe comedy, theatre, cabaret etc, but I have been to concerts at the Royal Festival Hall and Barbican, plays at big West End theatres and that sort of thing, as well as some interesting smaller shows I might not have wanted to risk spending £30 on but were worth a punt for a fiver.
• TodayTix - this works through an app. You sign up for alerts for particular shows you would like to see, and get an alert when there is a special deal on. Often same-day/last-minute so good if you are flexible.
• Some long-running shows (eg Hamilton, Book of Mormon) have lotteries for a limited number of £10/£15 tickets - sign up and you might get lucky
• If you like classical music, there are loads of free lunchtime concerts in various churches around London. Also if you join mailing lists for particular venues or orchestras or choirs, you may find yourself being offered free or heavily discounted tickets.
• Universities, embassies and various organisations often do interesting talks, art events or films for free - do some googling around areas that might be up your street and check out posters and noticeboards in likely areas
• If you like drinking warm white wine and looking at pictures (and people-watching), sign up for the mailing lists of a few small art galleries so you get invited to opening night private views.
• BBC audiences - you can sign up on the website and then get emails inviting you to book or be put in the lottery for tickets to BBC concerts or the recordings of TV and radio programmes (not just London, but obviously a lot of them are). If you have ever fancied being on the NYE Hootenanny, for example, this would be your chance (filming next month)!
• Cinema membership - I have a Picturehouse cinema within a short walk of where I live, so I bought annual membership (in their black friday sale), which includes a certain number of tickets, no booking fees, plus discounted tickets for a companion and discounts on food and drink. I think this year my cinema tickets average out at about £7, and I've been to a couple of previews of new films for £3. Other chains have similar deals, and if you are into classic or arty films, BFI membership is worth a look.
• Museum memberships - most of the big London museums (British Museum, Tate, V&A etc) have free general entry but charge rather a lot for special exhibitions. Membership gives you unlimited access to special exhibitions (sometimes even when they are sold out to the general public), plus other perks like private members' lounges, invitations to previews and talks etc.
• The Art Fund card - this is a national thing, where you pay an annual fee and get free or half price entry to lots of museums and special exhibitions, plus a quarterly magazine. It won't let you jump the queue like an individual museum membership, but it gives you a lot more variety.

I've only been here a couple of years, so I am sure there is plenty more out there that I haven't discovered yet!

I would love to live in London. I’d live in Stoke Newington or Clapham.

Do it! Some friends retired to Borough and are having a ball.

£400K is a tiny budget for central. Something like this is in reach if you’re willing to be 25-30 min away.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/93272163#/?channel=RES_BUY

Just a counterpoint to all of this.

I have lived in an ex LA in a 3 storey block (so no lift) for 30 years in zone 3 in SW London.

Service charges have been affordable or reasonable (less than £1000 per year) for that time and ground rent is negligible or peppercorn.

We had the crittall windows replaced with double glazing and I was charged around £2K IIRC. I was also charged £2K when the block water tank was changed a few years ago.

One other expense was that I had to get a fire door installed to replace my front door which cost £1600.

Cannot say what the future holds but thats been it in the last 30 years.