Inherited Macartney&Stone retirement flat - anyone rented one out?

[damemaggiescurledupperlip]

We inherited a one-bed retirement flat from DH's parents over a year ago. It has been listed for sale since then, but no real interest.

An alternative would be to rent it out. Has anyone done this in a Macartney and Stone development?

(I don't want to be a landlord, but the ground rent, service charges and double council tax do stack up. We have lowered the price twice, but nothing in the block is selling.)

But if (and with dementia sadly it is very likely when not if) he reaches the point of needing more care than is offered, then there could well be issues with the move onto a nursing home with capital tied up in an unsellable flat, and income paying service charges.

Posters keep saying people are just fussed about their inheritance and should suck it up, but I am far more concerned about not being able to choose a suitable nursing home at the right time because the funds are tied up in a flat that’s difficult to sell paying out the service charges. And in M&S developments they do not provide the level of support for those with dementia as their needs increase and indeed may well be putting pressure in family to relocate the family member.

Renting is far more appropriate for many older people for whom the retirement development is unlikely to be their final home. Esp for those who’ve put off moving into their 80’s. I would far rather pay out a higher rent out of my equity but be able to move onto a higher level of care when I need it (rather than when the LA decide) and/or leave my family with the problem.

You would be better doing it through resales at Mcarthy stone

I totally agree but think the main issue is that rentals are much harder to find in this sector - the idea that there’s tons of them both private and social going begging really really depends where you are - to give you an example here in Bath, if I apply for any via council I would be around 52 on the list ( I know this) privately none at all, and all the housing associations you have to go via council.

if I lived up or was prepared to live up the north east or areas like parts of West Midlands I could have one tommorrow

Should have added that the place we are looking at also has a care/nursing home section. So if residents get worse they move there. Yes we would still need to sell but we are buying second hand (there are no new builds) and can see that the flats do sell, not quickly but within a year. They only keep one flat for rental and that is occupied....by a 105 year old. The facility is run by a charitable foundation, which I hope is a good thing

One of the things we particularly liked is that there is a big menu of support that you can choose from. As their health declines and needs grow, you just choose to have additional support.

That sounds good - is it Abbeyfield?

No, it is Brendoncare.

thank you for a balanced post showing that the only priority when choosing these sorts of property is the comfort and community integration of the people who bought it, not the worry over any inheritance by the remaining relatives

Agree, there needs to be some investigation and legislation about this whole racket. These companies are grabbing scumbags IMO. It comes up in the news from time to time bit nothing is done.

Renting is also far more appropriate for those older people who can’t afford to buy, but many local authorities exclude them solely on the basis of being home owners. Houses here can sell for much less than a M&S flat, leaving some older people no option but to try and cope in an unsuitable home, until they either die or move into care.

I would like the security of an entry system, staff to be there if DH or I became unwell, and peace of mind for our family who don’t live near us. Happy to pay rent, and service charges, our home would fund those costs, and pay for other help. But our chance of that is virtually nil.

There are some very cheap sheltered housing properties you can buy, particularly out of London and the South East. They might not have all the whistles and bells a Mcarthy and Stone development has but as a minimum they’ll have a lifeline link installed, a warden and usually a communal lounge with maintained gardens. There are still service charges but they’re not as high. My mum pays £190 a month for service charges.

Companies like First Port have many blocks around the uk.

I'm not sure this is a balanced post at all. Yes it's nice that this poster's parents are happy, but she is still going to have the same headache of trying to get rid of her parents retirement flat when they die, and she will still be paying a fortune in service charges and council tax and the like..

If it was me (and I was left one of these places) I would flat out refuse it. You don't have to accept it.

Was this recently?

you demonstrate exactly the point.
You are focused on you and the repercussions facing you.
You are not focused on the comfort of your parents in their last days above all other considerations.
If the parents want to sacrifice themselves for the sake of leaving money then that is their decision, it is not something the child should attempt to influence.

Put it like this , I bet there’s an absolute ton of people who would buy one that was well maintained at £80k (in a good area where houses aren’t peanuts ) with maybe £6-7k tops a year of service charges without waiting years to sell - the fact it cost £220k new or even second hand makes it a lousy investment, yes I agree on that, but has it helped the person living there, probably yes - I think you have to think of it as buying into a community/lifestyle and for that I wouldn’t be prepared to pay over £150k ‘anywhere’ and that would include Bath, Hampstead , Chichester, Christchurch - in fact anywhere high end . The other thing is that the person buying one really needs to have at least £50k in liquid assets to cover off these charges till sold and I also think as an owner you or your family should be able to rent them out to cover costs , long term or short term

The problem about renting is that you have a very very small group of people who will be interested. They need to be over 60 or 70 in many places. Most seem to want to buy even at mid 80's. They dont think what will happen in a few years. You re up against that mindset as many many old people dont really think about being in ill health. They also are often holding back on moving from something they feel they are fine staying in (even though they are being supported massively by adult children) My Mum never made any plans for her old age. She wanted to fall asleep one night and never wake up.

Unfortunately we cannot choose how we go. In the end I asked Mum if she wanted to stay in her old house what was her plan to replace the heating when it went, organise a boiler service, what if a leak appeared. Her water was very patchy going very hot and then cold.

Sadly she had no plans although without thinking she did say she would call me....

Yes, to above. On reflection, what my mother was trying to buy into was companionship. It didn’t really pan out, as at first she was much healthier than most, the she was suddenly terminally ill. It says something very sad about our society that there is no community to help us through old age.

I will be in the same position.

Same here. I don't have any family at all - so nobody to look out for me.

I hope to move to a retirement village with step care (meaning there is independent living and a care home all on the same site). I've identified my preferred place already. This isn't the same as a McCarthy Stone set up.

I am hoping retirement villages (based on the American Continuous Care Communities model) become more prevalent in the UK as time goes on. Perhaps they will. More people are having either no children or fewer children, so family sizes are shrinking and people will be looking to find community elsewhere.

My American in-laws bought into insurance for this, which I think is a great idea. A bit like medical insurance. I wonder if that model will come here.

Yes, I think the idea is you pay a set amount up front and you can live there for the rest of your life (no matter how long you live for). I'd very much like the model to come here.

I just wanted to say here that service charges on non retirement flats are expensive. £5k per year is not unusual and as the building ages things need replacing. A new roof for example. They also have need of services such as a caretaker for communal cleaning.

But usually the flats are much larger than a petite retirement flat.
If you have to pay a warden of a sheltered block of flats this is expensive. So is heating and lighting in communal areas.

If someone leaves their flat empty due to death or any other reason, the service charge still has to be paid every month.

Saying that, an elderly lady that I used to visit made me promise that I would never buy a M and S flat when I was old. She thought they exploited owners. For example the hours the warden was on duty suddenly went down and no coverage when the warden was on holiday but yet the service charge rose.

I think that’s the main problem - it’s lack of predictability - so you could buy one and be happily pootling along for 15 years or buy one for and well and need a care home within 18 months, if you lose a lot of money after15 years worth of use then so be it, after18 months it’s a bit of a nightmare , which is why I would always opt to rent or buy one only if in a good area, nicely maintained and cheap - !! There are quite a lot of rentals too on the open market, just go into rightmove and put a rent range - like up to say £1800 and maybe a whole county, like Somerset etc and at the bottom there’s an option for over55 rentals - so mark it ‘show only these’ - the only thing about rentals is it may be hard to get any long term security - I’m not sure of what the conditions are, especially if people are being allowed to rent whilst trying to sell .

Iv never heard of these and not sure what the difference is between that and the normal retirement flat complexes?

Ive been googling as this interests me (although Im too young), so I found Rangeford Villages and another one called Retirement Villages

There are some flats to rent as far as I can see in the Retirement Villages website, for about 3k a month, so rough ball park figure, if you lived there for about 10 years, assuming same price, you're looking at 360k over that time. That seems to be better value than buying as they seem very very expensive as flats, becuase you're looking at about 360k at least for a flat and then around 12k a year service charges.

Service charge and ground rent on my parents retirement apartment is currently £450 per month and that includes water and heating (from heat pump) - I actually think this is pretty good seeing as they also get building maintenance and insurance included, and there are well-kept communal areas for socialising.

I appreciate that it might be a pain in the ass to get rid of in the future but my parents enjoy living there, go to the weekly coffee mornings, and someone is always hosting a birthday party!! Having bought the property in their early 70s I hope they get 15 years or so there before needing further care (although obviously you never know what is going to happen!).

@soupyspoon yep there’s a few of them around - this one at £1650 for a 2 bedder is in a very similar set up village not too far from us in Corsham - swimming pool, , restaurant, lovely grounds etc - this isRangeford too

guess it all depends if you can have them ‘long term’ - other than that I’m a snob and would happily live tgere

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/141362975

I think the difference is that not all (or not many) retirement flat complexes have the option to stay on site if your care needs change dramatically (if you need a care or nursing home basically).

I'd like to be somewhere that I wouldn't have to move from if my needs changed. This might be possible in somewhere like Rangeford Villages - I haven't really looked into them much, as they don't have any sites any where near where I live.

Agree re finances. I need to have a bit of a closer look into that. My concern would be just having enough money to last until I die. I'm not bothered about passing on an inheritance, as I have nobody to leave it to.