Inherited Macartney&Stone retirement flat - anyone rented one out?

[damemaggiescurledupperlip]

We inherited a one-bed retirement flat from DH's parents over a year ago. It has been listed for sale since then, but no real interest.

An alternative would be to rent it out. Has anyone done this in a Macartney and Stone development?

(I don't want to be a landlord, but the ground rent, service charges and double council tax do stack up. We have lowered the price twice, but nothing in the block is selling.)

My mother in law can’t sell her M&S apartment. We plan to refuse inheritance of it if needed when the time comes.

I am genuinely baffled how people keep buying these things? I just don't follow the logic at all.

We had problems selling my MILs apartment 6 years ago - just made sure it was always the cheapest on the market in that area but had to keep dropping the price until it sold. I think older ones are better value as they dont have the high service charges the shiny new ones do and cost a lot less.

I know people who live in these flats. They are well heated, have suitable bathrooms etc, have a manager onsite, feel safe and offer possibilities for socialising. Great to live in, if you can buy outright and have enough income to pay the monthly service charge. But service charges keep going up, there can be repeated extra charges to fix the lift or replace the roof, and eventually the outgoings become unaffordable. At that point the flats become very hard to sell, which is a problem for the owner if they need to go into a care home, and for whoever inherits when the owner dies.

The only charge a tenant would normally be responsible for out of ground rent, service charges or council tax is the council tax.
The ground rent & service charges are still the responsibility of the landlord. I know McCarthy Stone offer some extra services & you would have to do some research to find out if the extra services could be split in some way if a tenancy is allowed.
Personally I think this can be a bigger issue than some of the issues with exorbitantly ground rent & service charges
*Edited to correct spelling

you need to check the lease and speak to the management of the site itself.
Whilst McCarthy & Stone do let some of their properties they do that in their own name and generally speaking owners of individual properties are prohibited from letting without permission from M&S, who may require to be appointed as the managing agent of it.

Of permission is granted any tenant must meet the occupation criteria for the site (eg their age) and so the market will be very small.

not impossible, but inheriting one of these properties really is a millstone until disposed of.

How long is the lease.? If short that will deter buyers, look at dropping the price and selling asap. It's a minefield to renew a lease in a retirement home. McCarthy Stone take huge percentages. My partner sold his parent's McCarthy Stone retirement flat in Berkshire and was fortunate to get shot of it as it had a short lease, but not too short to be a huge problem ££££. These ever decreasing leases are problematic. Also he was not allowed to rent it out. Not sure if the new government legislation on leasehold laws is in your favour? Think it's only for new buyers/sellers & don't know if it covers retirement and park homes. Be very wary of the new tenancy laws if you can/decide to rent. . Another minefield.

I doubt very much they can go out to general letting. Anyone over 60 could get in then and may not be suitable for a sheltered scheme environment (criminals, drug takers, other anti social behaviour etc).

My MIL paid £170k for her flat and we sold it after her death for £100k. It took two years to sell unfortunately and this was in a nice development in a market town. However, she enjoyed her time there and it was a much safer environment than her previous home. My mum is also in one ( not M and S) and also likes living there but the service charges aren’t too high - around £200 a month. There are always vacant properties in her block.

My mother lived in a M&S flat for the last five or six years of her life, and then left it to me. It was a great place for her, and it was the right choice for her during that time. I have tried to sell it a couple of times but to no avail, so have rented it out through Girlings. If you get good tenants you can get a 5% return after all expenses. It’s worth it for me, and no hassle at all (I live 500 miles away and would never manage a let property myself). The set-up fees are high, but Girlings told me what I would need to pay.

A bit off topic, but have you challenged the 200% council tax. I had this with late DMs house and challenged it. As the house was actively being marketed, they put it back to 100%.

NB all councils appear to interpret rules/laws in different ways. It’s worth asking and following it up, by asking for a review if you don’t get the answer you want.

Because they are different from other property purchases we make over a lifetime. Resale is not going to be in the pirchaser’s remit, therefore they are not seen as an investment per se. There are exceptions, but people tend not to live in them for long. They are an expensive temporary arrangement and the considerable service charges accrue until the property sells.

There are several long running threads on MN about them.

For those with living relatives in M&S flats, my DGM did some clever thing that I think was effectively 100% equity release on her flat, which she bought an annuity with, so when she died she didn't own it, the mortgage company did, and the service charges etc were their problem not her beneficiaries. As far as I know it's still not sold 2 years later, it wasn't a very good investment for them!

May be worth speaking to an advisor for those who could future plan.

A friend has just bought a retirement flat in Edinburgh, not M and S. It's a 1980s block and she says she had to bid way above asking to get it as there were several people interested. It's not leasehold, the monthly service charge is £125, there's a manager on site, lots of parking, lift, great public transport links and shops nearby and in an expensive area of the city but half the price of non retirement flats. She's absolutely evangelical about it and I'm seriously considering doing the same sometime. So, it's not always bad news!

I have some knowledge as late parent was in one.

Have bullet pointed for ease!

Parent rented. Never buy at mid 80’s plus. It was M and S btw.

The people living there almost without exception had left it far too late age wise to move. They had struggled living on their own and their children were keen to make things easier for all sides.

Leaving it too late means that there is a churn of residents often in denial. I met some of them who were convinced they were fine in their 4-5 bed house with large garden but actually the house itself was being managed by their children who were called again and again to sort something out. All the while the parent thought they were doing just fine.

Buyer beware. People were being seduced by the new builds. The elderly thought they were invincible and didn’t give much thought to how they would be in say 2-3 years. If someone really needs to buy then buy second hand.

It’s all very well thinking these places are the work of the devil but what are the other options. We had a private carer in for Mum a couple of times a week because I lived 100 miles away and quite honestly she was the laziest carer in the world. Mum couldn’t manage her and didn’t like to tell her what was needed. Mum rang me a lot over silly things. Post coming that she got worried about. Her TV channels weren’t working properly. Sky had an error message.

If the elderly person doesn’t want to move because they have convinced themselves they are doing fine they will be the worst type of buyer and drag their feet and pontificate endlessly.

I know I am going to sound heartless but it ended up that everything I did i.e book a holiday etc had to be thought of with Mum first. She panicked if I went away and demanded to know who she could call if she needed help and support. I had to involve other members of the family most of whom weren’t that interested in helping. She then moved much closer to me into a M and S rental.

My biggest regret was that she didn’t move sooner but she would have covered up how she was doing in her previous house and said she was doing just fine.

JUST LOOK AT RENTING. WE JUST WALKED AWAY WHEN SHE HAD TO MOVE TO A CARE HOME AS HER HEALTH DECLINED.

Have rented one on a short term basis for an elderly uncle then bought said rental. When it came to sell it took a couple of years. My DD is a lawyer and she would caution anyone buying one that they are notoriously difficult to sell.

It's the service charges that put people off.

Same here - I don’t get it!!! My MIL almost got talked into it but once I explained what would happen in the long term she saw sense! M&S prey on the elderly when they are vulnerable - it’s just a money making racket. I don’t know they get away with it ti be honest.

The guardian have done a few articles on these flats. It seems it’s a bit of a racket.

They are not always available to rent. I depends on the particular development.

People buy into them because they don’t want to be alone, nor deal with leaky roofs etc. The top end M and Stone have communal lounges and 3 course lunches, film nights etc and 24 hour on site reception. If you drop your reading glasses, you can call someone!

There’s nothing illegal or rackety about them. Buyers and their families need to read the small print, though. Resale is a nightmare. Been there, done that.

I’d have turned down this inheritance. You’ve been left a croc . No one sane would touch a M & S .

As others have said, look at the T&C’s on the lease and perhaps renting it out will be a. good idea.

My Dad lives in a retirement flat managed by a different company. They do allow renting out-he started by renting a flat in the complex to see whether he liked the area, and then bought his own. The flat was managed by an estate agent and was quickly rented out again to a new tenant. He offered to buy that flat but the owners preferred to rent it.

Selling these flats really seems to depend on the location. They get snapped up where he is.

If you turn down an inheritance of a property what happens to it, does it go to the government?

Wow! Sorry to hear. Won’t say where in the country do not to out myself. Different company.

FIL had an amazing flat on ground floor which was sought after in the sheltered home. When he passed on and before it went on the market, a family living in another flat put in an offer and asked how much it was going for - we gave top of market value which we thought was unachievable- however, they accepted. Just now waiting for probate etc etc

thank you for the warning that these homes are hard to sell.

Have you seen the cost of owning one of these. I have seen service charges of £20,000 per year.

When we were looking to move a few years ago I saw one that was reduced from £30,000 to £20,000. Saw it again at £9,000 and still it wouldn’t sell