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Original poster

Landlady question re:cleanliness, is this fair?

167 replies

Vargas · 07/03/2025 11:01

A quick rundown:

2 bed flat was professionally cleaned 3.5 years ago, absolutely immaculate. Inventory done.
Lead tenant lived in flat for 3.5 years, with 3 different sharers.
He's moving out and last sharer (6 months) is staying with new flatmate, so the flat is still furnished/food in cupboards etc...
Lead tenant and I decided to start a brand new tenancy, return old deposit, start new deposit etc... as if there are brand new tenants.
The tenants claim to have 'had the flat cleaned'.
BUT having gone round yesterday, the flat is not clean enough for 'new tenants'. Oven filthy, hob filthy, cobwebs, dust on architraves, extractor full of dust, washing machine drawer skanky etc... but there's no damage and tenant has been good, always paid on time, let in workmen, etc...

So DH thinks we should take off £200+ from deposit for cleaning as the 'baseline cleanliness' (his words :-)) is not good enough, and we're having new inventory done tomorrow. I'm inclined to agree, but what do other landladies/tenants think? Does this seem fair?

OP posts:
Original poster
Vargas · 07/03/2025 12:51

anon2022anon · 07/03/2025 12:45

Would I pursue it: yes.
I would estimate a standard end of tenancy cost, including oven clean, and tell the tenant leaving that cost. I would give them the opportunity to have another go themselves if they want, but provide images from when they moved in to the standard needed- quite often it's things like ovens, extractor fans, limescale, fridges, freezers needing defrosting, washing machine seals and drawers.

I would then discuss with the new tenant whether they would like to move as many of their belongings as possible out to start the tenancy on the same standard, or whether they would like the current standard marked on their inventory and then use the money for the cleaning at the end of that tenancy.

I work in lettings, and we absolutely wouldn't let this slide, as we wouldn't be able to let a flat in that condition, so at some point you'll be paying for it otherwise.

This is my DH's point of view. I'm inclined to be more lenient, but I get where you're coming from.

OP posts:
LetsTalkTwaddle · 07/03/2025 12:53

Vargas · 07/03/2025 12:24

Our previous tenants have always had the flat professionally cleaned when they left. Is this not standard practice? It's what I always did when renting too...

They're not leaving the flat and you're not having the expense of having it professionally cleaned in order to attract a new tenant. I don't understand why you're not able to take this on board. Technically this is a new tenancy but in reality the flat isn't going to be vacated and a cleaner can't do a full professional clean with tenant's belongings everywhere.

You're starting to look like the tight CF landlords that people quite rightly detest.

Garlicgarlicgarlic · 07/03/2025 12:55

What have the Deposit Protection Scheme said? That's the only body who can allow you to take any of the deposit.

Hoppinggreen · 07/03/2025 12:55

For work I deal with getting deposits back for my clients and it largely depends on what the tenancy agreement says. If it states a professional clean or cleaned to a professional standard on departure then you can insist on that. It would be better for you to make sure you get an invoice from a company for the clean if you want to keep some of the deposit.
Basically it comes down to what the contract says not what you want to do or what anyone on here thinks is fair

Grumpytoday · 07/03/2025 13:02

Vargas · 07/03/2025 12:46

Why would I want to piss off the tenants? What a strange remark. I have no wish for them to leave.

It's not the same people, it's one new tenant and one who's only been there 6 months. I think it's only fair that the old tenant pays something towards cleaning the flat, but I can see that this might not work in practice, that's why I was asking the question here.

Show quote history

You have to look at it from the point of your tenant who has been living there for 6 months. Is he/she the person you’d be keeping the deposit from (or is it the old lead tenant? Sorry, I’m not clear on that)? Was the property immaculate when that person moved in 6 months ago?

Is it the case if you claim £200 of the deposit now you’ll be effectively asking them to pay for a deep clean near the start, as well as at the end of their tenancy?

Original poster
Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:02

Hoppinggreen · 07/03/2025 12:55

For work I deal with getting deposits back for my clients and it largely depends on what the tenancy agreement says. If it states a professional clean or cleaned to a professional standard on departure then you can insist on that. It would be better for you to make sure you get an invoice from a company for the clean if you want to keep some of the deposit.
Basically it comes down to what the contract says not what you want to do or what anyone on here thinks is fair

The tenancy agreement says:

"the Deposit shall be returned to the Tenant less such sum as the Landlord may reasonably require:
...
'to compensate the Landlord for any reasonable cost incurred to clean the Premises to the same standard as at the beginning of the tenancy;'"
...

so I think I'm entitled to a professional clean, but in these circumstances probably best to just leave it and pay for it myself after the new tenancy ends.

OP posts:
AprilF00L · 07/03/2025 13:05

I thought that was always done. We rented for years. Professional clean when we went in and professional clean when we left. Get professionals cos if it's not up to standard they come back and sort any missed bits.

Menobaby79 · 07/03/2025 13:05

So is it a private let, or through an agency? It would make more sense the need to have it cleaned, if this is what the agency requires?

I can understand the agency would want to avoid comeback for themselves and their client, if new lead tenant 2 then leaves and says old lead tenant 1 left it in an unclean condition at the beginning of the tenancy. Provides their own photos as evidence, etc but this seems unlikely.

If you're a private let, then why not just let it slide for the sake of keeping everyone happy? Its just goodwill. Something a lot of landlords don't seem to be interested in.

Hayley1256 · 07/03/2025 13:06

I know a few landlords and also a few people who rent. The landlords wouldn't expect a tenant to pay for a deep clean as they would cover that cost themselves, they would expect the property to be left in a clean condition though ( so they would deduct from the deposit if they had to pay for extra cleaning bits that aren't covered by a standard deep clean e.g if lots of rubbish was left in the property and they had to pay forbthe disposal of it).

Original poster
Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:08

Grumpytoday · 07/03/2025 13:02

You have to look at it from the point of your tenant who has been living there for 6 months. Is he/she the person you’d be keeping the deposit from (or is it the old lead tenant? Sorry, I’m not clear on that)? Was the property immaculate when that person moved in 6 months ago?

Is it the case if you claim £200 of the deposit now you’ll be effectively asking them to pay for a deep clean near the start, as well as at the end of their tenancy?

Show quote history

So the deposit was paid by the lead tenant, who is leaving, and he has always sorted out the deposit privately with his various sharers. I don't know how much the current tenant has paid towards the deposit, I assume half, but I'm not sure.

DH and I thought we could take £200ish off deposit, and ask them to sort it out between them (they're friends), and then agree that we will pay for professional clean when the new tenancy ends. So no cleaning now, only at the end. Does that make sense?

OP posts:
Original poster
Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:10

Menobaby79 · 07/03/2025 13:05

So is it a private let, or through an agency? It would make more sense the need to have it cleaned, if this is what the agency requires?

I can understand the agency would want to avoid comeback for themselves and their client, if new lead tenant 2 then leaves and says old lead tenant 1 left it in an unclean condition at the beginning of the tenancy. Provides their own photos as evidence, etc but this seems unlikely.

If you're a private let, then why not just let it slide for the sake of keeping everyone happy? Its just goodwill. Something a lot of landlords don't seem to be interested in.

Private. And yes, I think I will let it slide. When I posted this I was under the impression that tenants always had a professional clean done at the end of tenancy, because this is what I always did, but several people on this thread say this is not the case so....

OP posts:
Original poster
Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:11

AprilF00L · 07/03/2025 13:05

I thought that was always done. We rented for years. Professional clean when we went in and professional clean when we left. Get professionals cos if it's not up to standard they come back and sort any missed bits.

Yes! Same. I'm surprised to see people saying they don't.

OP posts:
ByQuaintAzureWasp · 07/03/2025 13:17

CanOfMangoTango · 07/03/2025 11:13

This is fucking mad

Why should people already living in the flat do an end of tenancy clean? They are obviously happy with how it looks.

You can do an inventory with a bit of dust and cobwebs you know.

This is exactly why people hate landlords.

This is why landlords are ducking out. Tenants should keep the place clean.

Gremlins101 · 07/03/2025 13:18

There are many reasons why people think landlords are asshats and this is one of them

Menobaby79 · 07/03/2025 13:18

Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:11

Yes! Same. I'm surprised to see people saying they don't.

Show quote history

Different circumstances though. Maybe you could put this in the contract that they agree to begin the tenancy in the condition that its already in?

If they don't accept it then plan B, deep clean perhaps?
I don't know, as I say I'm not a landlord myself. My Dad and auntie are both landlords, fairly nice ones I think (I hope!)

Glorybox2025 · 07/03/2025 13:21

Vargas · 07/03/2025 12:23

Yes, the issue is when the 'new' tenants move out, there won't be a correct 'baseline clean'. I really don't mind if they want to live with it filthy (the oven really is disgusting), it's what happens when these tenants leave and brand new ones come in. I guess the consensus on here is that we just pay for it to be professionally cleaned in a year or two when this set of tenants move out.

And also, thinking about it, the inventory is more important from a breakages and damage point of view, so we should still get that done, and just ignore the filth!

For those inclined to believe I am a dreadfully cruel landlady, I would note that the rent is well below market and we respond to issues immediately!

Show quote history

When these tenants move out you'll have to repaint and have it professionally cleaned anyway. After 3.5 years and however much longer these guys stay the place will need a full refresh (from your pocket! Not the tenants' deposit) so it's irrelevant really.

VanCleefArpels · 07/03/2025 13:21

I’m a landlord. Apart from the fact that it’s the same people living there who are clearly content with the state of the place, I think that after three years of being otherwise good tenants it would be nickel & diming them to charge for a deep clean which you would probably do anyway if you were re-marketing. They are doing you a favour by agreeing to new agreements: no costs of finding and referencing new tenants etc - don’t insist on a clean at this point!

Glorybox2025 · 07/03/2025 13:23

Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:10

Private. And yes, I think I will let it slide. When I posted this I was under the impression that tenants always had a professional clean done at the end of tenancy, because this is what I always did, but several people on this thread say this is not the case so....

Show quote history

Landlords used to put it contracts but like many things they put in contracts it's not enforceable. You have to leave the property as clean as you found it. You don't need to pay a professional to achieve that. If a landlord wants a professional clean they pay for it.

Grumpytoday · 07/03/2025 13:24

Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:08

So the deposit was paid by the lead tenant, who is leaving, and he has always sorted out the deposit privately with his various sharers. I don't know how much the current tenant has paid towards the deposit, I assume half, but I'm not sure.

DH and I thought we could take £200ish off deposit, and ask them to sort it out between them (they're friends), and then agree that we will pay for professional clean when the new tenancy ends. So no cleaning now, only at the end. Does that make sense?

Show quote history

To be honest I don’t think it’ll make a lot of sense to a tenant who probably moved in to a grubby property 6 months ago 🤔

Glorybox2025 · 07/03/2025 13:25

Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:08

So the deposit was paid by the lead tenant, who is leaving, and he has always sorted out the deposit privately with his various sharers. I don't know how much the current tenant has paid towards the deposit, I assume half, but I'm not sure.

DH and I thought we could take £200ish off deposit, and ask them to sort it out between them (they're friends), and then agree that we will pay for professional clean when the new tenancy ends. So no cleaning now, only at the end. Does that make sense?

Show quote history

Jeez. No. You're going to get in a pickle by not having vacant possession between tenancies and the deposit is one way. You can't deduct money now against a clean at some random unspecified time in the future! You have to evidence what you spent their money on, not just pocket it on the promise of a future spend!

Igmum · 07/03/2025 13:28

I'd suck it up, arrange and pay for a professional clean now, then do another set of photos for the new tenancy. They were good tenants for 3.5 years.

Glorybox2025 · 07/03/2025 13:32

Igmum · 07/03/2025 13:28

I'd suck it up, arrange and pay for a professional clean now, then do another set of photos for the new tenancy. They were good tenants for 3.5 years.

Why do they need to pay for a professional clean? The tenants are satisfied with the condition. The landlord will have to pay for a professional clean when the next tenants move out regardless, as well as a repaint. So paying now is pointless.

Hoppinggreen · 07/03/2025 13:38

Vargas · 07/03/2025 13:02

The tenancy agreement says:

"the Deposit shall be returned to the Tenant less such sum as the Landlord may reasonably require:
...
'to compensate the Landlord for any reasonable cost incurred to clean the Premises to the same standard as at the beginning of the tenancy;'"
...

so I think I'm entitled to a professional clean, but in these circumstances probably best to just leave it and pay for it myself after the new tenancy ends.

Show quote history

It could be argued that if a professional clean is required to return the property to the same standard as at the beginning of the tenancy then yes you could deduct for one. You should give the tenants the opportunity first to do it though as it is not specified that the final clean must be done by a professional (which is often the case with tenancy agreements)
I assume you have an inventory with photographs of the condition of the property when the Tenancy started?

Carrotsandgrapes · 07/03/2025 13:40

It's crazy that people already living in the house, should now have to pay for a professional clean!

I really can't believe you even considered this. Common sense, rather than legal technicality, should prevail here.

I rented for years in similar circumstances (3 tenants and various people moved in and out of the house over the years). When eventually it happened that all 3 tenants decided to move out at the same time, that's when the end of tenancy clean was done.

In other places I rented, I never did a professional clean.

gatros · 07/03/2025 13:47

What does the contract say? All the agency contracts I have seen have a term saying the tenant must have the flat professionally cleaned at the end of the contract. If your's doesn't, pay for a professional clean yourself now and add it to the new contract. Wear and tear isn't cleaning, it refers to the the damage we all expect to arise when living in a property. Things like scuffs to the walls and wear on the carpets/floors. A dirty cooker is not wear and tear.