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Original poster

How much to reduce our listing?

135 replies

Potaytoe5 · 13/07/2023 10:01

Only had 1 viewing in 3 weeks since we went live, so we decided we might as well drop the price already (annoyingly enough they loved our house, just went with one nearer train station!).
It's quite reasonably priced against other similar houses, but they all seem to be hanging around at the moment.
EA said there's not a lot of buyers and a lot of people told them they can't afford to buy anymore.
Would it be enough to drop it from £215k to £210k to start with, with a view of going to £200k if we still get no viewings?
I don't want to shoot myself in the foot and reduce to much too early. EA said it might be worth going for the lowest we are willing to sell for at the moment, but I am not sure how low we are willing to go really.
House is a standard 3 bed semi, renovated, nothing really 'wrong' with it, so that's not the problem. Nice area, houses usually sell quickly.

OP posts:
Bucks67 · 14/07/2023 19:30

Prices are likely to fall untill affordability improves to a point first time buyers can enter the market, that would imply a pretty big fall over a few years.
Just read an article about major house builders cutting production by 20% due to the market being so soft, they are screaming for the government to bring help to buy back.

Twiglets1 · 14/07/2023 19:33

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 19:19

Yes, I said people will wait it out rather than sell at a hugely reduced price. As most people are doing, hence the market being so quiet. Only those desperate to move for personal reasons would consider it at the moment, obviously. People tend to take a long-term view on fixed assets like housing, and certainly not sell during a crisis if they don't have a compelling personal reason to do so. And yes, within two years I believe rates will be significantly lower than now. I'm not alone in that analysis, either. 🤣 My guess would be maybe 3.5-4.5% but that is a guess, because obviously nobody knows how it will play out but it's very clear the current situation isn't sustainable and will result in a recession and then rates will be cut. And then yes, prices will rise again. That's the nature of it. Very different to me saying prices would "shoot up" as you claimed. The point is that estate agents trying to light a fire under potential sellers to convince them to sell now at huge discounts may not have their best interests at heart... they need to sell properties or they are out of a job and they have very few clients on their books, so have a vested interest. They are not your "friend" and people certainly shouldn't be seeking financial advice from them.

I didn't say prices would rise during the coming recession. Although they may: it wouldn't be the first time. It depends on many factors, not just interest rates. The market is extremely quiet, as is to be expected. There are some sales from BTL landlords (wholly different set of financial circumstances), people who desperately need to move, some people who have overleveraged and panicked, some who are desperate to downsize or move nearer family because they are fairly elderly so don't want to wait this out as even a few years is likely a significant proportion of the rest of their life, etc. There will always be some movement due to personal circumstances. But most people obviously will simply hold fast and wait, particularly as interventions have been made with lenders to avoid repossessions unless there is no other route - i.e. extended mortgage terms, a period of interest only payment, etc. And because nobody sane wants to upsize when new borrowing is at these high rates!

I couldn't care less what you believe.

I agree with all that

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 19:55

Bucks67 · 14/07/2023 19:30

Prices are likely to fall untill affordability improves to a point first time buyers can enter the market, that would imply a pretty big fall over a few years.
Just read an article about major house builders cutting production by 20% due to the market being so soft, they are screaming for the government to bring help to buy back.

They always do that whenever there's a prospect of their (very high) margins being squeezed. Many of the largest ones are large donors to the Conservatives and exert a lot of influence.

Whatwaste · 14/07/2023 20:04

Reducing to offers over £200k is definitely the right thing to do, in 6 months you are likely to be looking at £175k with further interest rate hikes.

You need to be the best value house to sell at the moment, it's a buyers market now, best of luck .

KievLoverTwo · 14/07/2023 20:05

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 19:55

They always do that whenever there's a prospect of their (very high) margins being squeezed. Many of the largest ones are large donors to the Conservatives and exert a lot of influence.

Show quote history

They are???

Facepalm

I am so sick of this damn country

Whatwaste · 14/07/2023 20:08

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 19:55

They always do that whenever there's a prospect of their (very high) margins being squeezed. Many of the largest ones are large donors to the Conservatives and exert a lot of influence.

Show quote history

Sources?

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 20:18

They are???

Facepalm

I am so sick of this damn country

Yes, some of their most "generous" funders. Until recently... I mean they still are, but Gove's recent moves on planning have rather pissed them off. 😆

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 20:36

Which also means - with an election coming up that needs funding - that the Cons will be desperate to find a way to throw them a bone. Perhaps another U turn on planning, under the guise of doing it out of compassion to help first time buyers. 😆😆 Or - since that would have no immediate effect in propping up sales and margins on land currently under development on which these people's bonuses depends - more likely some kind of "help to buy 2.0". Again, sold as "see, we reeeeallly care about young people, honest".

Twiglets1 · 14/07/2023 20:45

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 20:36

Which also means - with an election coming up that needs funding - that the Cons will be desperate to find a way to throw them a bone. Perhaps another U turn on planning, under the guise of doing it out of compassion to help first time buyers. 😆😆 Or - since that would have no immediate effect in propping up sales and margins on land currently under development on which these people's bonuses depends - more likely some kind of "help to buy 2.0". Again, sold as "see, we reeeeallly care about young people, honest".

Wow I think I just saw the future announcement...

25sheets · 14/07/2023 21:03

Potaytoe5 · 13/07/2023 13:37

The only obvious flaw is our driveway, but I am not willing to be spending money on that!
All houses around are about £210.
I think it's about right, we marketed as 'over £200k', meaning we won't take cheeky offers of £190k. I think it is more reasonable.
Photos were nice. I think it was the price in our case, unfortunately.
It could be a different story if there weren't two similar houses selling at similar price point, both next road!

£190k is not a "cheeky offer" if your house is going to be listed at 200k.

Your house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Sorry to be blunt but the reality is that house prices are going down. That's good though cos the one you are buying will also be going down - but by a bigger percentage as it's more expensive.

rainingsnoring · 14/07/2023 21:18

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 19:19

Yes, I said people will wait it out rather than sell at a hugely reduced price. As most people are doing, hence the market being so quiet. Only those desperate to move for personal reasons would consider it at the moment, obviously. People tend to take a long-term view on fixed assets like housing, and certainly not sell during a crisis if they don't have a compelling personal reason to do so. And yes, within two years I believe rates will be significantly lower than now. I'm not alone in that analysis, either. 🤣 My guess would be maybe 3.5-4.5% but that is a guess, because obviously nobody knows how it will play out but it's very clear the current situation isn't sustainable and will result in a recession and then rates will be cut. And then yes, prices will rise again. That's the nature of it. Very different to me saying prices would "shoot up" as you claimed. The point is that estate agents trying to light a fire under potential sellers to convince them to sell now at huge discounts may not have their best interests at heart... they need to sell properties or they are out of a job and they have very few clients on their books, so have a vested interest. They are not your "friend" and people certainly shouldn't be seeking financial advice from them.

I didn't say prices would rise during the coming recession. Although they may: it wouldn't be the first time. It depends on many factors, not just interest rates. The market is extremely quiet, as is to be expected. There are some sales from BTL landlords (wholly different set of financial circumstances), people who desperately need to move, some people who have overleveraged and panicked, some who are desperate to downsize or move nearer family because they are fairly elderly so don't want to wait this out as even a few years is likely a significant proportion of the rest of their life, etc. There will always be some movement due to personal circumstances. But most people obviously will simply hold fast and wait, particularly as interventions have been made with lenders to avoid repossessions unless there is no other route - i.e. extended mortgage terms, a period of interest only payment, etc. And because nobody sane wants to upsize when new borrowing is at these high rates!

I couldn't care less what you believe.

You cared enough to write an essay!

You have to admit that it is more than a bit misleading to say that people won't sell at 'huge discounts' and that they will wait for a couple of years which implies that houses prices will have grown considerably from the current prices which you term huge discounts within a 2 yr time frame. I'm saying that this is highly unrealistic.
As I said, rates may drop or they may not. No one knows for sure yet. What is clear is that the UK economy is at serious risk.
If they do fall, it will be because we are in a recession, quite possibly a depression which is likely to last for a long time. This is not a situation under which we will see any significant house price rises in the short term (unless we have hyperinflation and currency destruction which is by no means impossible). It is obviously an individual decision whether to 'wait it out' or get on and sell and move on with life. I think those waiting will be waiting a very long time this time around and that this will be different to previous falls.

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 22:00

No. You're inventing things again that I have no said. Nobody said house prices will have "grown considerably from current prices" in two years. 🤣 Stop making things up. The point is that this next year is the peak of a crisis made far worse than it had to be, and it will subside, things will stabilise and change as they always do. Projections are for rates to peak and fall back within 2 years, it's not something I've just made up, it's the best predictions we have based on the data and likely impact in the economy and subsequent need to cut rates back to correct because of the recession. So it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of people who might otherwise have considered moving won't do so right now, for all of the reasons I've set out already. And yes the short-term fall will be made back over time as the market stabilises and adjusts for the over-correction the BoE have made. Do you think house prices are going to fall and never rise again? 😆 However, the rate at which prices recover will depend on many factors like I said, not just interest rates. Like whether we get a new Government that fixes the distortions in the tax system and generates some productivity growth finally, what is done to support businesses that were hammered by Covid and will be hammered again by these rate rises as they need to refinance, whether we have any sensible policies implemented regarding international trade so that our ballooning trade deficit is reduced and GBP doesn't need so much propping up, what happens in Ukraine, what the FED does. Etc. Regardless, most people will wait this out unless compelled to move now, as they do every time something like this happens. Your comments are simplistic and exaggerated and rather silly tbh, like you're attempting to provoke an argument rather than have a rational discussion.

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 22:12

This reply has been deleted

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Bucks67 · 14/07/2023 22:31

Agreed, my point was more to do with lack of demand causing builders to pull back.
Price of the house doesn't really matter people's access to affordable credit does.

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 22:41

Bucks67 · 14/07/2023 22:31

Agreed, my point was more to do with lack of demand causing builders to pull back.
Price of the house doesn't really matter people's access to affordable credit does.

Yes, they'll pull back to artificially reduce supply to prop up their margins. They did the same after the GFC and the Cons had to throw them "help to buy" to convince them to build/ release more stock for sale again, and keep them onside as donors...

I'd expect something similar in the Con's next election manifesto, but differently dressed, but effectively a Government deal with banks to offer lower interest rates to FTBs. All dressed up as concern for young families of course, having royally screwed them over in every possible way for the last 14 years.

Onegingerhead · 14/07/2023 22:43

i think the market stalled now not because at current rates it suddenly became unaffordable for people to borrow the money and/or banks refuse to lend it at the salary multiplies they used 1-2 years ago, but simply because people are scared to commit/waiting for a crash to happen.
I just ran a check on my lender website and they would lend me 4.5 salary multiply (my wages only) and 5x if combined with DH.
4.5 X my wage (it’s not great tbh, pretty average/low side) would buy a 2 bed in my area with 10% deposit. It won’t be a new build, but a Victorian terrace for sure.
My colleague was selling one (wanted to upsize) but no interest in 2 months so she took it off the market and said she’ll try next year again.

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 22:58

Next year will be the worst for uncertainty: the delayed effect of the rate rises will hit, election looming, many businesses will be in trouble. Effects of Brexit are ramping up now as well, of course. Everything will calm down a little in 2025 I expect. It will be a mess and a recession but inflation will have fallen back and rates will be cut because of the fallout and resulting recession and then perhaps the UK might be able to start to rebuild and address the key policy weaknesses on tax, trade, productivity etc. But that would require some competent people in charge and we're not seeing sensible policies that will make a significant difference to long-term UK prospects proposed by either major party atm despite the major things that need to be prioritised being rather obvious. I expect a period of economic stagnation unless this changes, but at least it should be less chaotic I suppose and therefore there won't be this volatility. That's how low the bar is now. 🤦🏻‍♀️

rainingsnoring · 15/07/2023 11:44

Kafkaland · 14/07/2023 22:00

No. You're inventing things again that I have no said. Nobody said house prices will have "grown considerably from current prices" in two years. 🤣 Stop making things up. The point is that this next year is the peak of a crisis made far worse than it had to be, and it will subside, things will stabilise and change as they always do. Projections are for rates to peak and fall back within 2 years, it's not something I've just made up, it's the best predictions we have based on the data and likely impact in the economy and subsequent need to cut rates back to correct because of the recession. So it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of people who might otherwise have considered moving won't do so right now, for all of the reasons I've set out already. And yes the short-term fall will be made back over time as the market stabilises and adjusts for the over-correction the BoE have made. Do you think house prices are going to fall and never rise again? 😆 However, the rate at which prices recover will depend on many factors like I said, not just interest rates. Like whether we get a new Government that fixes the distortions in the tax system and generates some productivity growth finally, what is done to support businesses that were hammered by Covid and will be hammered again by these rate rises as they need to refinance, whether we have any sensible policies implemented regarding international trade so that our ballooning trade deficit is reduced and GBP doesn't need so much propping up, what happens in Ukraine, what the FED does. Etc. Regardless, most people will wait this out unless compelled to move now, as they do every time something like this happens. Your comments are simplistic and exaggerated and rather silly tbh, like you're attempting to provoke an argument rather than have a rational discussion.

It appears that you don't understand what the word 'implies' means. 😂😂😂
You now seem to have changed things somewhat from your initial statement and are saying that when the current 'mortgage crisis' (everything is a crisis nowadays) is over, more people will look to sell. Maybe, but they will still need to accept 'huge discounts' because prices are very likely to be lower in 2025 than they are now (nominal, never mind real). I am therefore saying that those waiting are making a mistake if they think they will achieve higher prices. In any case, what you suggest about nearly everyone holding off selling at present isn't actually what is happening as there has been a very large increase in properties coming onto the market recently and lots remaining on the market, unsold and slowly being reduced.
I think everyone can agree that the stability of the UK economy is and will continue to be affected by the competence of the politicians (can't see any reason for optimism on that front), the war in Ukraine, The Fed, etc.
If you are genuinely an economist, you will be aware that the projections of economists are incorrect most of the time. You make far too many assumptions that everything will just carry on as before and someone will eventually sort things out. You seem to assume that someone will fix the trade deficit, someone will generate better productivity, although you do say 'finally' so are clearly aware that this has been a problem. I'm afraid I can't see anything positive for the UK economy at present. It's been supported by selling off the family silver for decades and now it is all gone. It has also been 'supported' by deliberate inflation of the UK housing market to produce the 'wealth effect.' Now the UK housing market is falling. I think there will be a lot of very significant 'financial events' in the next couple of years so, no, I can't see house prices going up in the visible future. I expect this will produce another bunch of silly laughing emojis from you but perhaps you might agree to come back on here in 2025 to discuss how well things have gone.

Kafkaland · 15/07/2023 12:27

Oh dear. It's pretty clear you haven't understood my comments at all. I'm afraid I don't have time to go through and refute all of the spurious nonsense you've written yet again but I'm sure that it will be plain to anybody who has actually read the thread that your conjectures and assertions are completely false.

MNHQ
YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 15/07/2023 13:30

Hi everyone. Derailing a thread with arguments does not exactly help the OP and personal attacks break our Talk guidelines. Those who make a habit of either are likely to have their account suspended. We'd appreciate your help in getting this back on track. Thanks, all.

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Kafkaland · 15/07/2023 13:50

I thought you were reprimanding the OP attacking me and casting aspertions, making false accusations about what I've said, yet you deleted one of my comments? Confused My comments have all been to help the OP and others like her avoid making rash financial decisions or taking financial advice from estate agents with vested interests and to give a bit of info about the wider economic picture and likely trajectory to mitigate some of the scaremongering. Deleting those posts because I've defended myself against somebody making personal attacks on my professional abilities and accusing me of being a liar is bizarre, to say the least. I don't see how that will help the OP.

Kafkaland · 15/07/2023 13:52

Sorry, not the OP. The objectionable poster who keeps making things up and ascribing comments to people that they have not made. How depressing that you delete comments when somebody points this out and stands up to it and asks for a rational discussion instead.

Twiglets1 · 15/07/2023 13:58

Kafkaland · 15/07/2023 12:27

Oh dear. It's pretty clear you haven't understood my comments at all. I'm afraid I don't have time to go through and refute all of the spurious nonsense you've written yet again but I'm sure that it will be plain to anybody who has actually read the thread that your conjectures and assertions are completely false.

It is plain to people reading the thread - don’t worry about it.

Original poster
Potaytoe5 · 15/07/2023 14:19

Sorry to interrupt your discussion 😅we have a viewing in a moment so reducing the price certainly worked. Wish me luck 🙏

OP posts: