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Difficult neighbour WWYD

171 replies

IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:26

We are having a loft conversion done on our Victorian terrace house. We are end terrace and the last house on the street. Three of the houses on the neighbouring street have gardens that run right up to our gable wall - so our wall forms the boundary between the properties. It's a hip to gable conversion so the works will involve building up the gable wall, and there will need to be scaffolding to enable the builders to access that wall. As two of the three neighbours have sheds at the back of their gardens that extend right up to our house wall, the only real option is to put scaffolding footings in the garden of the third neighbour.

We don't know that neighbour well, although we've never had any issues with them - we've been living in this house for 8 years. As far as we know there is a young man (mid 20s) who lives there with his mother, and they've recently acquired a large dog - crossbreed, looks part mastiff. We can see into their garden from our side window and they basically never use it, other than the dog is sometimes out there by itself. The garden is not maintained and is just overgrown grass and pavers, no plants or flowerbeds or garden furniture. For this reason we didn't really anticipate that there would be problems with the scaffolding.

To cut a very long story short, the neighbour initially gave permission for the scaffolding, but today the scaffolders have arrived and it appears he has had second thoughts, because he's concerned that our building works will stress his dog out. Apparently the dog is home alone during the day and if it sees or hears anything unusual it gets anxious and wrecks the house. The neighbour suggested we could postpone our building works until the summer when he is off work and can better manage the dog. This isn't an option for us. We offered to screen the scaffolding so at least the dog won't be able to see people moving around but he felt the noise would still be an issue.

To add an additional complication the neighbour has just this morning informed us that the property is rented. Apparently his mother has been in touch with the landlord who is ok with the scaffolding but said he would need to do an inspection first - this doesn't really make much sense as it's not a Party Wall and there's nothing in the garden that could be damaged. We asked for the landlord's contacts details so we can clarify with them directly but the neighbour now isn't responding to our messages and won't answer the door. We've had to send the scaffolders away for the day with the job half finished.

Anyone have any advice on how to deal with this, we are at our wits end. If our builders can't start next week we are going to get bumped from their schedule.

OP posts:
OhMrDarcy · 15/02/2023 14:32

Is there no way the work can be done without having to put scaffolding in someone else's garden?

KangarooKenny · 15/02/2023 14:34

If you’ve not got permission you need to access it another way.

IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:37

@OhMrDarcy I don't think so as they need access to build up the gable wall. To be honest we haven't even explored this with the builders as we thought the neighbours were ok with the scaffolding and asked them several weeks in advance of the works starting...

OP posts:
IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:40

The bit that's confusing is that the neighbour doesn't seem to have any objection to the scaffolding specifically, it's more the disruption of the actual work he doesn't like... and we already have planning permission for that.

OP posts:
littlemousebigcheese · 15/02/2023 14:43

It's rough but I get what they mean about the dog. Maybe they didn't realise how bad it would be for the dog until now? I think you need to find another way, that doesn't encroach on someone else's garden!

OhMrDarcy · 15/02/2023 14:46

Putting scaffolding on someone else's land is a massive ask - it's noisy, disruptive plus the security aspect of it. My dogs would go nuts if there were builders and radios at the end of their garden.

Please check with your builders what options you have as you can't force someone to put up with scaffolding etc in their garden.

SpeckledlyHen · 15/02/2023 14:47

littlemousebigcheese · 15/02/2023 14:43

It's rough but I get what they mean about the dog. Maybe they didn't realise how bad it would be for the dog until now? I think you need to find another way, that doesn't encroach on someone else's garden!

I agree

OhhhhhhhhBiscuits · 15/02/2023 14:48

As much as it pains me to say it. It's your problem and not their problem. Why should their house potentially get trashed by the dog so you can get your extension? I don't think they are being difficult, I think they have thought about it and changed their minds. Get in touch with the builders and see if they can build a different way, or the scaffolders cam do something different. Yes, it may cost you more money, but you will be in the right. The other thing to do is offer the neighbours some money. That may sweeten it for them.

Pinotpleasure · 15/02/2023 14:48

Could you offer to pay for ‘doggy daycare’ for their dog?

You may be able to find out the name of the owner of the house on the Land Registry website, or/and local letting agencies may be the liaison between landlord and the tenants; they may be able to assist you in contacting the landlord.

BYOFARTSdotCOdotUK · 15/02/2023 14:49

You need to speak to your builder about an alternative way. Your problem is not your neighbours problem, it's irrelevant what condition their garden is in and I can see the concerns for their dog and their LL going a site visit too
There is nearly always another solution

HavfrueDenizKisi · 15/02/2023 14:50

OhMrDarcy · 15/02/2023 14:46

Putting scaffolding on someone else's land is a massive ask - it's noisy, disruptive plus the security aspect of it. My dogs would go nuts if there were builders and radios at the end of their garden.

Please check with your builders what options you have as you can't force someone to put up with scaffolding etc in their garden.

Totally agree with this. It's irrelevant if you consider the garden to be poorly maintained and thus your scaffolding shouldn't cause any issues. The neighbour has perfect entitlement to change their mind prior to the scaffolding going up and it's tough luck for you and your builders.

The builders will have to work out another way to do this. It won't be the first time this will have happened them.

RudsyFarmer · 15/02/2023 14:50

I thought neighbours had to allow access for work on property up to boundary lines?

HavfrueDenizKisi · 15/02/2023 14:51

Access yes. Scaffolding on their land no.

IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:51

Even if we can find a way to do the work that doesn't involve scaffolding footings on their garden, we can't avoid the fact that work will be taking place on the wall facing their garden. And that is apparently the bit that will stress out the dog.

OP posts:
NewHouseNewMe · 15/02/2023 14:52

I wouldn’t allow it after a bad experience.

We once allowed someone to put scaffolding over our property side passage and without permission they used the side of the wall as a prop. They left the scaffolding up much longer than agreed and had to be chased to come back by the next door neighbour, and then didn’t mend the damage to our wall. Plus there are the security/privacy aspects.

I would explore options to build without needing access to another garden. It’s a major ask.

harriethoyle · 15/02/2023 14:52

Your neighbour isn't being difficult. He's exercising his right to say no to something which will make his life worse. Your sniffy comments about the state of his garden do suggest a level of entitlement which is unattractive...

RudsyFarmer · 15/02/2023 14:52

This is what I was thinking of …

’if a notice is served under Section 1 to construct a new wall along a boundary* (either as a Party Wall or as a wall built wholly on the owner's side of the boundary) or if a notice is served under Section 2 to raise or rebuild a Party Wall there is a right of access onto the neighbour's land to build and finish the wall. This includes the placement of scaffolding if this is necessary.’

Is this applicable to your situation OP?

IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:53

@RudsyFarmer yes that does seem to describe our situation, where is that text from?

OP posts:
CopperMaran · 15/02/2023 14:56

I’m not surprised you’re feeling upset having thought it was settled. Speak to your builder about other options - they’ll have dealt with this many times before. I wouldn’t spend time on trying to convince them as they’ve shown that they will struggle and that will make them difficult. You could try and find the landlord details (if there is actually one) - I’m not sure whether a landlord can overrule a tenant’s veto or not. I would have thought they’re unlikely to want to veto it and make their tenants unhappy.

SpeckledlyHen · 15/02/2023 14:56

I don't think your neighbour is being difficult as per your title. I understand where he is coming from to be honest, and he doesn't sound difficult, it's just a situation that does not suit him which I think is reasonable.

RudsyFarmer · 15/02/2023 14:58

IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:53

@RudsyFarmer yes that does seem to describe our situation, where is that text from?

It’s from a random site talking about rules regarding party wall agreements.

www.partywall.info/rights-of-access-onto-neighbour-s-land.html

I do think you have the right to do it but I don’t know if you’ve got time on your side or whether you’re going to have to get a solicitor involved.

GasPanic · 15/02/2023 14:58

I would have got written permission from the landlord, referencing the dates as to when you need to erect the scaffolding and have access. Probably a formal contract. The landlord would then have to make arrangmenets with the tenant. it would all probably cost money as you would need to pay for the legal work and the compensation if needed.

You neighbour is only being "difficult" in the respect that he is not allowing you to do what you want on what is essentially his land.

CopperMaran · 15/02/2023 14:59

RudsyFarmer · 15/02/2023 14:52

This is what I was thinking of …

’if a notice is served under Section 1 to construct a new wall along a boundary* (either as a Party Wall or as a wall built wholly on the owner's side of the boundary) or if a notice is served under Section 2 to raise or rebuild a Party Wall there is a right of access onto the neighbour's land to build and finish the wall. This includes the placement of scaffolding if this is necessary.’

Is this applicable to your situation OP?

This text sounds relevant depending which document it is from. I’m sure your builder will know lots of the ins and outs.

YesitsBess · 15/02/2023 14:59

Can I clarify something please?

Are you now facing two issues:

  1. The scaffolding footing.
  1. Neighbour now wants the entire project ground to a halt for 7 months because of the dog regardless of whether the scaffold is on their garden or not?
CharlotteRose90 · 15/02/2023 14:59

I don’t blame the neighbours. My neighbours did the exact same thing put scaffolding in our side then damaged my fence, and the part of the garden they were using. They also thought it was hilarious to throw the rubbish onto my side from off the scaffold. I gave numerous times to remove it and sort out but they wouldn’t. In the end we blocked that side of the scaffolding so they couldn’t get near it on my side. In the end it took an extra 5 months and they had to make it smaller .

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