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Difficult neighbour WWYD

171 replies

IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:26

We are having a loft conversion done on our Victorian terrace house. We are end terrace and the last house on the street. Three of the houses on the neighbouring street have gardens that run right up to our gable wall - so our wall forms the boundary between the properties. It's a hip to gable conversion so the works will involve building up the gable wall, and there will need to be scaffolding to enable the builders to access that wall. As two of the three neighbours have sheds at the back of their gardens that extend right up to our house wall, the only real option is to put scaffolding footings in the garden of the third neighbour.

We don't know that neighbour well, although we've never had any issues with them - we've been living in this house for 8 years. As far as we know there is a young man (mid 20s) who lives there with his mother, and they've recently acquired a large dog - crossbreed, looks part mastiff. We can see into their garden from our side window and they basically never use it, other than the dog is sometimes out there by itself. The garden is not maintained and is just overgrown grass and pavers, no plants or flowerbeds or garden furniture. For this reason we didn't really anticipate that there would be problems with the scaffolding.

To cut a very long story short, the neighbour initially gave permission for the scaffolding, but today the scaffolders have arrived and it appears he has had second thoughts, because he's concerned that our building works will stress his dog out. Apparently the dog is home alone during the day and if it sees or hears anything unusual it gets anxious and wrecks the house. The neighbour suggested we could postpone our building works until the summer when he is off work and can better manage the dog. This isn't an option for us. We offered to screen the scaffolding so at least the dog won't be able to see people moving around but he felt the noise would still be an issue.

To add an additional complication the neighbour has just this morning informed us that the property is rented. Apparently his mother has been in touch with the landlord who is ok with the scaffolding but said he would need to do an inspection first - this doesn't really make much sense as it's not a Party Wall and there's nothing in the garden that could be damaged. We asked for the landlord's contacts details so we can clarify with them directly but the neighbour now isn't responding to our messages and won't answer the door. We've had to send the scaffolders away for the day with the job half finished.

Anyone have any advice on how to deal with this, we are at our wits end. If our builders can't start next week we are going to get bumped from their schedule.

OP posts:
LoisLane66 · 19/02/2023 02:08

In my experience thus far, scaffolders are VERY tardy about taking down scaffolding until they need it for another job as it costs a lot to store it.
Several adjoining private properties (flats) local to me, had scaffolding left there for 7 months after work on the guttering and flashing was refurbished and even then, it was only removed in stages, as and when needed elsewhere.

Happygirl79 · 19/02/2023 08:52

Pinotpleasure · 15/02/2023 14:48

Could you offer to pay for ‘doggy daycare’ for their dog?

You may be able to find out the name of the owner of the house on the Land Registry website, or/and local letting agencies may be the liaison between landlord and the tenants; they may be able to assist you in contacting the landlord.

This is the perfect solution

Fifigp · 19/02/2023 09:09

I'm sorry - this wouldn't apply to your situation. Your gable wall would only be a party wall if other buildings were sharing the wall ie built/enclosing upon it. As it's an end of terrace you wouldn't have any rights under the Party Wall etc Act to place scaffold on your neighbour's garden. Under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act your neighbour would be legally required to give access for maintenance purposes only not new work. You would need to agree a scaffold licence with your neighbour to place the scaffold in the garden and agree a financial price for doing so. Are you having scaffold on the front and rear elevations for the loft conversion? If so, you could cantilever the scaffold at roof level alongside the gable wall but would need to be so careful to ensure nothing is dropped into the garden. Last resort would be for the builders to raise the gable wall by working overhand - they don't like doing it and it does increase cost for you. Gets rid of the issue with the neighbour though.

lljkk · 19/02/2023 09:17

Think you may have opened a hornet's nest here, OP.

If they have to get rid of dog or if it's an unregistered let or simply leads to long term bad feeling with neighbours: not worth that fall out.

Oldraver · 19/02/2023 09:18

Did you not speak to them before they got planning permission ? My neighbours are currently planned Ng an extension right up to my boundary and I know they will need scaffolding in my garden or have to go the expensive way. To be honest it has pissed me off they haven't even spoke to me

You can't just assume your neighbour should suck up any disruption

mustgetoffmn · 19/02/2023 09:57

Was there a reason you didn’t speak with neighbours before you set up and arranged a schedule with the builders etc? Surely first port of call.

mustgetoffmn · 19/02/2023 09:59

lljkk · 19/02/2023 09:17

Think you may have opened a hornet's nest here, OP.

If they have to get rid of dog or if it's an unregistered let or simply leads to long term bad feeling with neighbours: not worth that fall out.

Also a horrible thing to do.

mustgetoffmn · 19/02/2023 10:04

SpeckledlyHen · 15/02/2023 14:47

I agree

So do I. I live in an area which is gentrifying and it’s just one loft conversion after another. Constant skips and building noise. There should be more regulation supporting impact on neighbours.

mustgetoffmn · 19/02/2023 10:14

IceandIndigo · 15/02/2023 14:26

We are having a loft conversion done on our Victorian terrace house. We are end terrace and the last house on the street. Three of the houses on the neighbouring street have gardens that run right up to our gable wall - so our wall forms the boundary between the properties. It's a hip to gable conversion so the works will involve building up the gable wall, and there will need to be scaffolding to enable the builders to access that wall. As two of the three neighbours have sheds at the back of their gardens that extend right up to our house wall, the only real option is to put scaffolding footings in the garden of the third neighbour.

We don't know that neighbour well, although we've never had any issues with them - we've been living in this house for 8 years. As far as we know there is a young man (mid 20s) who lives there with his mother, and they've recently acquired a large dog - crossbreed, looks part mastiff. We can see into their garden from our side window and they basically never use it, other than the dog is sometimes out there by itself. The garden is not maintained and is just overgrown grass and pavers, no plants or flowerbeds or garden furniture. For this reason we didn't really anticipate that there would be problems with the scaffolding.

To cut a very long story short, the neighbour initially gave permission for the scaffolding, but today the scaffolders have arrived and it appears he has had second thoughts, because he's concerned that our building works will stress his dog out. Apparently the dog is home alone during the day and if it sees or hears anything unusual it gets anxious and wrecks the house. The neighbour suggested we could postpone our building works until the summer when he is off work and can better manage the dog. This isn't an option for us. We offered to screen the scaffolding so at least the dog won't be able to see people moving around but he felt the noise would still be an issue.

To add an additional complication the neighbour has just this morning informed us that the property is rented. Apparently his mother has been in touch with the landlord who is ok with the scaffolding but said he would need to do an inspection first - this doesn't really make much sense as it's not a Party Wall and there's nothing in the garden that could be damaged. We asked for the landlord's contacts details so we can clarify with them directly but the neighbour now isn't responding to our messages and won't answer the door. We've had to send the scaffolders away for the day with the job half finished.

Anyone have any advice on how to deal with this, we are at our wits end. If our builders can't start next week we are going to get bumped from their schedule.

Aren’t you the difficult one, not the neighbour? You’re going to cause a lot of disruption dust noise skips etc. Not nice for the community and you are the only beneficiary of this work. Yet you expect total compliance and happy agreement from your poor neighbours about to be subjected to inconvenience for no personal gain. Also why is the state of garden relevant?

threatmatrix · 19/02/2023 10:14

You could always volunteer to have the dog whilst he’s at work to keep it company

mustgetoffmn · 19/02/2023 10:20

Pinotpleasure · 15/02/2023 14:48

Could you offer to pay for ‘doggy daycare’ for their dog?

You may be able to find out the name of the owner of the house on the Land Registry website, or/and local letting agencies may be the liaison between landlord and the tenants; they may be able to assist you in contacting the landlord.

This is complete meddling and interference. The OP has no right to do this.

Hopeforrainbows · 19/02/2023 10:37

Surely the dog will be stressed whether or not the scaffolding is in his garden or not. The noise won’t change. The building work won’t change.

I would offer doggy care for the worst days ( putting it up and taking it down) but other than that think you have the right to go ahead responsibly.

Buy a few doggy stress chew toys as another peacemaker xx

tealady9973 · 19/02/2023 13:01

Have you offered any financial compensation for the disruption?

I don't think your neighbour is being difficult. He won't benefit from your loft extension so why should he put up with the disruption?

My experience of builders is that things take much longer than they say.

Rollercoaster1920 · 19/02/2023 14:14

There is a lot of bollicks on this thread. A lot of people suggesting illegal acts too. Don't trespass on your neighbors property or into their airspace.

Do get a good party wall surveyor, probably RICS registered.
The party wall act covers erection of walls up to the boundary line, but on your own property. Specifically it includes a right of access where it is necessary. For safety reasons I think this would be necessary, even to have a safety zone if building overhand.

A party wall agreement is for the owner of your neighbouring property to sign, not the tenant. The owner needs to communicate with the tenant.

You'd need a lawyer to argue whether a tenants right to peaceful enjoyment trumps the party wall act.

I'm not a lawyer but have researched the PWA and actually read it due to neighbouring works.

hedgehoglurker · 19/02/2023 14:37

Did you confirm with the neighbour the exact date that the scaffolding would be going up? If they knew exactly when they were coming but left it until the scaffolders actually arrived to deny access, this was an arsehole move.

Or did you only have the one conversation weeks earlier, without specific details?

Bibbsy82 · 19/02/2023 16:58

Unfortunately the other party does not need to be Adjoining dependant on the work been done it might be affected up to 6 meters from the property so depending in the size of the garden it might still apply

Fifigp · 19/02/2023 17:08

Rollercoaster1920 · 19/02/2023 14:14

There is a lot of bollicks on this thread. A lot of people suggesting illegal acts too. Don't trespass on your neighbors property or into their airspace.

Do get a good party wall surveyor, probably RICS registered.
The party wall act covers erection of walls up to the boundary line, but on your own property. Specifically it includes a right of access where it is necessary. For safety reasons I think this would be necessary, even to have a safety zone if building overhand.

A party wall agreement is for the owner of your neighbouring property to sign, not the tenant. The owner needs to communicate with the tenant.

You'd need a lawyer to argue whether a tenants right to peaceful enjoyment trumps the party wall act.

I'm not a lawyer but have researched the PWA and actually read it due to neighbouring works.

There must be a party notice required for the other sections of the Act to apply, not a party wall or a party fence wall in this situation. The right of access only pertains to the works required under a party wall notice not just because it's necessary. No party wall therefore no notice and no right to access under this Act. I'm a chartered building surveyor and party wall surveyor with over 20 years experience.

The OP has stated they have a party wall surveyor for the works on the other side and they had presumably advised, rightly, that there are no party wall requirements on this side.

Rollercoaster1920 · 19/02/2023 18:57

Ah yes. Apologies, I was wrong (talking bollicks). In my case the neighbour is building a wall (not part of a building) so section 1 did apply. Extending an existing wall, wholly on your own land, upward is not covered at all by the act!

So it is back to negotiation with the neighbour (the tenant) for access. They can say no.

PaterPower · 20/02/2023 11:16

My neighbours are currently planned Ng an extension right up to my boundary and I know they will need scaffolding in my garden or have to go the expensive way. To be honest it has pissed me off they haven't even spoke to me

Ditto. My neighbour’s applied for an extension which will go right up to the boundary and make any maintenance on my existing garage very difficult. He applied months ago, was refused, and then appealed to the Sec of State.

He’s not once bothered to come and talk to us about their plans (or more importantly, how he plans to erect scaffolding, avoid disruption etc.

OK, he doesn’t have to, but he’s really pissed us off, when a five minute chat would have kept us on side. He’s shot himself in the foot.

Rollercoaster1920 · 24/02/2023 10:40

Can anyone recommend a party wall surveyor who is neighbour aligned rather than developer aligned? The Watson Wood guys are developer aligned so not them.

Stewball01 · 28/02/2023 14:14

You're not building a party wall. Your extending part of your property. Nothing to do with the neighbour and now you're looking for sneaky ways to get your way. Not nice. 👎

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