Difficult neighbour WWYD

[IceandIndigo]

We are having a loft conversion done on our Victorian terrace house. We are end terrace and the last house on the street. Three of the houses on the neighbouring street have gardens that run right up to our gable wall - so our wall forms the boundary between the properties. It's a hip to gable conversion so the works will involve building up the gable wall, and there will need to be scaffolding to enable the builders to access that wall. As two of the three neighbours have sheds at the back of their gardens that extend right up to our house wall, the only real option is to put scaffolding footings in the garden of the third neighbour.

We don't know that neighbour well, although we've never had any issues with them - we've been living in this house for 8 years. As far as we know there is a young man (mid 20s) who lives there with his mother, and they've recently acquired a large dog - crossbreed, looks part mastiff. We can see into their garden from our side window and they basically never use it, other than the dog is sometimes out there by itself. The garden is not maintained and is just overgrown grass and pavers, no plants or flowerbeds or garden furniture. For this reason we didn't really anticipate that there would be problems with the scaffolding.

To cut a very long story short, the neighbour initially gave permission for the scaffolding, but today the scaffolders have arrived and it appears he has had second thoughts, because he's concerned that our building works will stress his dog out. Apparently the dog is home alone during the day and if it sees or hears anything unusual it gets anxious and wrecks the house. The neighbour suggested we could postpone our building works until the summer when he is off work and can better manage the dog. This isn't an option for us. We offered to screen the scaffolding so at least the dog won't be able to see people moving around but he felt the noise would still be an issue.

To add an additional complication the neighbour has just this morning informed us that the property is rented. Apparently his mother has been in touch with the landlord who is ok with the scaffolding but said he would need to do an inspection first - this doesn't really make much sense as it's not a Party Wall and there's nothing in the garden that could be damaged. We asked for the landlord's contacts details so we can clarify with them directly but the neighbour now isn't responding to our messages and won't answer the door. We've had to send the scaffolders away for the day with the job half finished.

Anyone have any advice on how to deal with this, we are at our wits end. If our builders can't start next week we are going to get bumped from their schedule.

I don't think it's unreasonable of them to say they're no longer happy with the proposal to use their garden for scaffolding. They were being asked to inconvenience themselves and upset their dog, and risk damage to their home/garden, so that you could get some home improvements done. If it's a rented property, then it's an even bigger potential issue for them, as the landlord could hold them responsible for any damage unless the landlord has already approved it.

You asked for a (pretty big!) favour, now they've said no. Getting upset at them is only going to waste your energy and cause everyone stress.

Maybe speak to the builders/scaffolders to see what they suggest. I'm sure this won't be the first time in history that someone has been in this situation, so there's bound to be a solution that doesn't involve further upsetting your neighbours.

I think they were ok with it until the reality of the dog going nuts hit, when the scaffolders actually turned up.
I do think they might be hiding the dog from the LL which might be why they’ve changed their mind again.

I don’t think they are being deliberately awkward. I wouldn’t want my house being chewed up either. Be firm but understanding.

Can you appease the neighbour by offering to pay for dog to go to doggie holiday resort of their choice for a couple of weeks? Otherwise, you will have to find another solution. Neighbour will still have to cope with doggie seeing the the actual work but you can't help that. the sooner it's over, the better.

this sounds a nightmare for you but I also think that the neighbours are being reasonable. I think I would go with compensating them up front as they will be massively inconvenienced for your benefit.

Thanks everyone who has offered advice. We did already offer to pay for a dog walker or behavioural trainer but the neighbour didn’t want that as he said the dog isn’t good with strangers. Apparently his mother can’t control it either, he’s the only one it responds to. As per my update yesterday, he is now saying the scaffolding can happen, so fingers crossed he doesn’t change his mind again.

Maybe other people’s living situations and norms are different but we’re in an urban area and it’s pretty common for neighbours to need to place scaffolding in adjacent gardens. In fact we have allowed other neighbours to put scaffolding in our garden before.

I hope it all goes smoothly for you OP. I wouldn’t have though he’d change his mind again if he’s already had his wobble.

I think people understand that you live in an urban environment. People are just explaining to you that you have no inherent right to put up the scaffolding, that your neighbours do have an absolute right to reject it which may stop your building work, and the safest thing to do would be to get a written legal agreement If fact I would still encourage you to do that - what if your builders get half way through, your neighbour revokes permission again, and you are left with the job half done? You are risking a lot by relying on goidwill.

• in fact 🙄

Could you offer to pay for a doggy daycare place?

I think in a perfect world the neighbours are being reasonable. The only proper way is to get a proper agreement drawn up with the landlord. This will take time.

The only out you might have is what people have pointed out earlier. Find out the landlords name from the LR. Then name drop to the neighbour that you need to talk to him her to get this resolved if you can't get the scaffold in.

Then they have a choice, they can either allow you, or realise that you are going to go to the landlord and talk about the situation, which they can either stop by allowing you, or not stop by further ignoring the situation.

Again when you chat to the landlord, it may be worth dropping the hint that if they don't allow you to scaffold you may need to "talk to the council about what you can do about it" because if there really are some issues over whether the landlord is legitimate then they will probably want to avoid this at all costs.

I suppose people might feel all the above is a bit underhand, but really you are giving them the choices. Ultimately if you have to do everything properly re drawing up an agreement for the scaffold, they have to do everything properly as regards whether they are allowed to keep pets, or whether the landlording is legitimate.

I can understand your neighbour's concern about his dog because my neighbours erected scaffolding on my property (without my consent), not only did it block my windows so we couldn't open them in the summer and covered my sky dish, I was unable to let my children play in the garden after a piece of rubble nearly struck one of them, the mess from rubble landing in my garden was a nightmare and and eventually I had to ask that the scaffolding be covered. After the construction on my neighbour’s property was finished, the scaffolding firm took a very long time to take it down.

@UserNameSameGame there have been a lot of people posting that they would not allow a neighbour to put scaffolding in their garden under any circumstances and that we should find another way to do the work. I understand there is no inherent right, as you say, but I do think there’s a difference in refusing scaffolding when it’s been requested for convenience and there’s an alternative way to do the work, versus where refusing the scaffolding will mean the neighbour can’t improve their property at all. The layout of our properties is such that the latter is the case.

You usually need a scaffolding licence for something like this which protects the neighbour in the way a party wall award would.

Particularly as scaffolding tends to be left even after the job is finished until it is needed for the next one.

We had some work done a few years ago and the sodding scaffolding was there for about 6 weeks afterwards. It made a huge area of the garden unusable.

We allowed it but only for roof access to fix a leak, we wouldn't allow if for extensive renovations taking weeks, we use our garden. Thankfully my dog rather likes builders and spent 3 happy days begging for bacon sandwiches off the roofers, but if he wasn't keen on people it would be difficult

If your gable forms the boundary with the neighbour, and you are proposing to extend that wall upwards, then it is a party wall. A party wall award can form the basis of the agreed access, scaffolding, etc between neighbours. Do you have an architect advising you? I’d thoroughly recommend hiring party wall surveyor immediately as it sounds like you haven’t served the required notice to the adjacent property owner, only had informal discussions with the tenant.
BTW it is not uncommon in London terraces to have to build these walks solely from your side of the boundary - it is more expensive and takes more time but scaffolding n a neighbours’ garden should not be an assumed right.
As others have said upthread, scaffolding is hugely disruptive to neighbours, and needs to be carefully negotiated and controlled.

I'm a decent neighbour who has twice said yes to having scaffolding erected on my property for a neighbour's building work and has lived with a builder's radio blaring just inches from my windows, debris, glass, plastic sheeting, broken slates and hundreds of roofing nails all over flower beds and stone slabs and paviors badly damaged and broken. In both cases the neighbours refused to remedy anything. In one case they left me with a block wall with mortar oozing from between the blocks and told me I'd have to get it rendered myself if I wanted something more aesthetically pleasing to look at.

I'm never, ever, going to let a neighbour have access to my garden for building work again. They're lovely when they want you to do them a favour and then turn into a*holes once they've got what they wanted out of you.

Have you called the council planning team who passed your plans through?
They should be able to give you free advice.

I would contact the landlord directly for permission and offer for doggy daycare for the dog or something that will help with the dog if he cannot go to it. Then some wine or pay for a takeaway and try to keep relations as good as possible.

It is a huge ask to have scaffolding on your neighbors land.

I have a large 9 month old puppy. She is a love. Plan was for my family to have her on days I worked. It has not worked out as their dogs dont get on with her. It is perfectly possible that his dog is changing as it grows and what he thought would be ok is now not. If it were me, I would consider if you wanted to pay for kennels but tell you to shove off if you offered a behaviouralist.

I can see it from both sides the best thing you can do is talk to the builders their usually pretty good at suggesting different options

Why not ask the other neighbours if you can temporarily move the sheds? I'm sure the builders will be able to lift and move them fairly easily.

I would try and get a bit of quick legal advice. It sounds as though you gave plenty of notice of the work being done and the scaffolding being erected, and the neighbour initially gave permission. We had a neighbour erect scaffolding for building work a while ago and the front footings were on our property. I remember being told something to the effect that if the neighbour gave adequate notice we couldn’t stop it unless the scaffolding interfered with access to our own property. You’d have to check it though. I think it’s unreasonable to then withdraw permission the day the builders turn up. And I also think it’s unreasonable to quote the dogs behaviour as a reason for delaying the work. You’re going to need a work around - possibly offer to pay for day care for the dog - but I think you need to know where you stand legally first. Has anyone pointed out to the neighbour that being difficult could come back and bite him in the bum if he, or the LL need work doing at some point ? You also need to contact the LL as I have a feeling that if he gives permission there’s not much the tenant can do.

Well it's their garden whether they use it or not. You need to think another way around it or pay for their dog to be put in dog daycare while your people work on your house.

I would offer them some money for the inconvenience.
I think people are not ‘being difficult’ changing their mind about scaffolding being on their land. Yes I get you are saying it’s the noise they won’t like and you have permission for the extension. You sound entitled in your post so it’s prob coming across to them too. Have some compassion and pretend you care avoid the hassle to them and this will help. He has suggested an alternative so he is not saying no you just don’t like the alternative. I think if scaffolding on his land is the only option - he’s worked out saying no to this is also avoiding the noise as you can’t proceed without this.

YABU, you sound quite snooty and entitled tbh.