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Landlord selling

156 replies

Mooovingonout · 27/05/2022 14:41

Yesterday I was informed my landlord intended to sell the house I live in but I'm not yet being given the official two months notice.
The estate agent does want to come round and take photos and get it on the market asap. I said it will have to be after half term but that's not good enough for them, they want to come on Monday. I can say no to that right? Unless they would like my children in every photo and they're toys out??

My view is if they want me to get the house photo ready they should take when I'm available. I'm not gaining anything from the sale

OP posts:
rainingsnoring · 15/07/2022 18:27

@WombatChocolate - you sound like a really good landlord who understands things from the tenant's perspective. I'm sure your considerate behaviour means that you have less 'difficult tenants'

Pleaseletmeconfirm · 15/07/2022 21:39

@Silverfinch ... but you're completely wrong, she doesn't have to allow viewings. It doesn't matter what she signed, clauses in an agreement don't override tenancy law. The only thing she needs to legally grant access for is in an emergency situation such as gas leak or flood

Ahh, I didn't realise that. Ok, that makes a lot more sense. I thought you had to allow viewing if you had agreed to them in your rental agreement. I guess then that the OP has done the right thing for her then.

Ohthatsexciting · 16/07/2022 07:06

I think people are missing that the OP thinks the landlord has “been great”.

quite honestly, if a landlord has been “great” and has now been diagnosed with cancer (or even if not diagnosed with cancer!), why wouldn’t you allow viewings?

no drama, no leaving the property, no mad tidying frenzy, just making someone’s life just that little bit easier who has been “great” to you.

Pocolovo · 16/07/2022 07:59

@Ohthatsexciting Mabye she means great for a landlord, but that’s pretty low bar isn’t it?

The health of the landlord is not the concern of the op. Her main concern is being able to live her life as normal and enjoyi peace and quiet in her house, and fortunately the law is on her side!

WombatChocolate · 16/07/2022 08:18

If it were just a one-off needing to do a quick tidy and ten exit the property fir a couple of hours, that would be one thing - something you might well be happy to do for someone who’d been a ‘great’ LL. However, the key point is it isn’t that once marketing starts.

First you’ve got the agent coming to take photos. Then you’ve got multiple viewings…and anyone who is more interpreted wanting to do a second viewing. Each time, that’s at least a quick tidy round, and then especially over the summer holidays, given the agent has said they want the property empty for viewings, the need to organise to take the whole family out for probably an hour or two….where to exactly? Is that walking the streets? Going somewhere in the car? Spending money? Will it be finishing this week or go on through the whole summer holidays? It’s the open-ended nature of it that’s the problem.

So, if I were the OP, I would quite simply be saying, regardless of anything in the contract or that I’d agreed to previously ‘ Sorry but I won’t be accommodating viewings, certainly not during the summer holidays. My children are at home and we are not going on holiday so we need access to the house that we’re paying for and won’t be able to vacate so that people can be shown round’.

Again, this isn’t about ‘doing a favour’ or owing one to a ‘nice’ LL. LLs should be decent and provide a good service as a matter of course, because they are paid significant rents. It is a business transaction. The tenant doesn’t need to feel grateful and indebted to the LL for getting the service they’ve paid for. As I say, I’m a LL myself, and my view is that LLs get vacant possession before marketing. I have zero sympathy for anyone for tries to do otherwise and think no tenant needs to accommodate marketing - and that is the legal position.

So, if this LL has decided to sell for whatever reason, that’s fine. They can serve legal notice. They can see if the tenant vacates when that notice expires. If they do, they can then do whatever work is needed and then market it. Anything before that point is asking something if tenants which they are not required to provide and is a contravention to the quiet enjoyment of the property they have paid for and the LL has agreed to provide in return for rent. If the LL wants to offer the tenant reduced rent or some other benefit as recompense for doing viewings and the inconvenience caused, they can offer it and it’s up to the tenant to consider if they want to accept the offer. However, any suggestion that the tenant must accommodate viewings, or that they should and it’s the ‘right’ th g to do, or that a ‘great’ LL is somehow owed it, is daft and again, a failure to understand the position and rights of LL and tenant, but a sense that because the owner is the owner, somehow their desires and wants supersede those the tenant gains through the fact they pay rent and have a legal contract.

The trouble is that many people still think that LLs are doing tenants a favour by letting tenants live in their house. They think that even when a tenant is paying hundreds kr thousands a month and has a legal contract with rights to notice, quiet enjoyment, maintenance etc, because they do not actually own the property, the LL always has the right to visit at any moment, decide to sell and market at any moment and whether to maintain the property or not. They think that surely an owner should be able to sell THEIR property any time they wish or need to…becaue it’s theirs. They forget, that when someone pays a significant rent and signs a legal contract, they have bought rights and that the LL has to then wait for that contract to expire or to legally end that contract, so those rights no longer exist and they can revert to doing what a property owner without tenants can do. Quite simply, LLs cannot have their cake and eat it. Anyone who suggests tenants should pay their rent and then allow the LL to act as if they as tenants don’t exist, is placing the non-property owning tenant as some kind of lower-being and denying them the rights that their rent and the law gives them. People just need to think again and get the balance right in their heads.

When you rent your property out, you receive rent and in return lose the flexibility you had when you didn’t have tenants. That’s the ‘cost’ of the rent. LLs and the public have to accept that the 2 go hand-in-hand.

knickersniff · 16/07/2022 18:46

WombatChocolate · 15/07/2022 11:38

I write as a LL who has also been a tenant in the past.
See my earlier posts about sensible and aware LLs always getting vacant possession BEFORE marketing properties.

People fail to realise that by nature the LL-tenant relationship is never quite equal. Tenants know they never have long term security and might have to move. Given that LLs do need to be able to sell their properties and liquidise their assets, this is always necessary, but doesn’t make it more pleasant as a fact and crucially, the ways this occurs can be very unpleasant for tenants, which many seem to think tenants should just accept as givens.

Being given notice, regardless of whether a property is being sold is always unpleasant, if you like your home and hoped to stay there. However nicely, politely and considerately it’s done, it’s not nice. Rightly, there are minimum notice periods and these have to work for both LLs and tenants. 2 months might sound a long period, but isn’t if you have a family and have to find somewhere else and factor in things like schools, workplaces and particularly when there are shortages.

Tenants almost always worry about moving out. They worry about references that will be given and about deposits being returned and finding another deposit ahead of having the first returned. They worry about requirements mentioned in the contract such as professional carpet cleaning and gardening requirements. Some of these things are not legal requirements for renters, but lots of LLs and agencies still out them in. So, as the point of heading towards vacating, the relationship isn’t equal. The tenant feels they must please the LL or agent to ensure they get all their deposit back and get the reference they need. And it’s in this context that some tenants find themselves also being asked to accommodate property viewings. So saying ‘no’ or significantly restricting when they can happen often feels like it will jeopardise the reference or deposit. So often a LL or agent asks and asks in such a way as to make it feel compulsory and that a tenant will lose out by saying no.

Again, there is no requirement to allow viewings.

People poo-pooing Ops desire not to have viewings and calling her difficult, forget that at least some level of tidying is needed. They forget that viewings mean strangers coming into your private bathroom and toilet and probably looking in your cupboards. It feels like a violation, especially if you can’t be there. Then there’s the need to go out - especially in winter, exactly where do you go, for perhaps 90 minutes? It’s not always straightforward especially with several children. It might involve spending money. So, no, people aren’t going to welcome it as a chance to have a tidy up and see it as a positive. It’s a definite negative and imposition and bearing in mind some agents or LLs want to show people multiple times a week over multiple weeks, there is scope for real abuse. Remmeber, lots of tenants are vulnerable. They might not know their rights and unfortunately some LLs or agents don’t treat them or speak to them with respect about these issues.

Anything about marketing and property viewings should be phrased as a question, where it’s clear that there is always the option to say ‘no’ without any impact whatsoever. However, this rarely happens but instead, tenants feel coerced into agreeing to things they don’t want. And that’s where the problem lies.

As a LL I would never try to sell a property with tenants. It’s mostly because it’s impossible to know for sure when tenants will vacate or if legal eviction proceedings which can h can take a year will be needed, meaning exchange is impossible. But it’s also because tentnas are paying rent and entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property until the day they leave. Therefore, I would always factor in giving notice (and ideally not doing this but waiting for a tenant to choose to vacate) and having a period with the property empty and no rental income, whilst being decorated and then marketed. It is no good for LLs to say they can’t afford to have the property empty so need to market whilst rented. If that’s the case, they can’t afford to be LLs. The tenant pays rent and should receive the property without interruption. To try to market it and expect them to tidy or to go out whilst viewings happen or. Or have strangers traipsing through the property they pay for……in my view it’s tantamount to theft.

So Op, especially with summer holidays coming up and kids at home, I’d stick to your guns and say that ‘no’ you’re not prepared to have to vacate your home with your full brood and wander the streets whilst they look. You’ve paid and it’s your property until you vacate. They will have to wait. It’s not awkwardness. It’s wanting what you’ve paid for and a secure home without strangers coming in is very much that.

This

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