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Landlord selling

156 replies

Mooovingonout · 27/05/2022 14:41

Yesterday I was informed my landlord intended to sell the house I live in but I'm not yet being given the official two months notice.
The estate agent does want to come round and take photos and get it on the market asap. I said it will have to be after half term but that's not good enough for them, they want to come on Monday. I can say no to that right? Unless they would like my children in every photo and they're toys out??

My view is if they want me to get the house photo ready they should take when I'm available. I'm not gaining anything from the sale

OP posts:
Crazycatlady83 · 28/05/2022 12:32

Look it's not nice that the LL is selling and you have to leave your home. It's a pain that the LL is expecting you to facilitate photos / viewings etc. I'm sorry if the stress is causing you illness.

But, you have to see surely that by sending that email and then expecting to view and obtain another property through the same agent, you have put yourself in a weaker position to get the property. If it's a competitive market, and if you go against a tenant the agent knows doesn't obstruct, they will pick them.

It's obviously too late now.

lollipoprainbow · 28/05/2022 12:41

We've just bought and didn't bother enquiring about houses where it was obviously tenanted (beds not made, toys over floor etc)

Not all renters have unmade beds and toys everywhere !

Mooovingonout · 28/05/2022 12:44

I get that, I really do.

I should be helping the estate agent so they in turn help me..

But also they should be helping me so I move out easier and the landlord doesn't need to get a court order to evict me?

Swings and round abouts??

My head is just not making sense right now sorry.

OP posts:
Mooovingonout · 28/05/2022 12:45

On Thursday they put the house on the market but I haven't been given two months notice yet, verbal or written. Can they really do that?? Is that normal??

OP posts:
123walrus · 28/05/2022 12:46

@Crazycatlady83 is correct. You hold the cards but you need to play them right.

In your shoes I would highlight to the agent that you know your rights and that you don’t have to allow photos or viewings or anything at all. But, say you want to be reasonable and allow the landlord to sell as soon as possible. Ask if they are able to support you in finding another property and say if you have another rental lined up you’ll at that point allow photos and viewings.

lollipoprainbow · 28/05/2022 12:48

I'm in the same situation, my brilliant landlord of 9 years is selling up. He hasn't sent me a section 21 yet. Luckily the estate agents have been very respectful and only come when convenient to me which I'm grateful for. I don't really have a choice of people looking round but thankfully we've only had about three viewings since February so far and always when convenient to me.

LIZS · 28/05/2022 12:50

Mooovingonout · 28/05/2022 12:45

On Thursday they put the house on the market but I haven't been given two months notice yet, verbal or written. Can they really do that?? Is that normal??

Yes they can but they will not be able to exchange with "vacant possession" until your notice has expired and you have left. Notice needs to be served correctly or you do not have to leave.

lollipoprainbow · 28/05/2022 12:50

@Mooovingonout mines on the market too but only for buy to let investors maybe yours is the same ? Also I called the agent to query and she said the landlord wouldn't give a section 21 until the last minute in case the sale fell through, all the while I'm paying rent to them it makes sense I guess.

rodham · 28/05/2022 12:56

@lollipoprainbow I didn't say that all renters have unmade beds and toys all over the floor! I rented for 20 years and have always kept a tidy house.

BUT when you see listing photos like that, you know it's tenanted, because an owner would be invested in showing the property in the best possible light.

Mooovingonout · 28/05/2022 13:02

rodham · 28/05/2022 12:56

@lollipoprainbow I didn't say that all renters have unmade beds and toys all over the floor! I rented for 20 years and have always kept a tidy house.

BUT when you see listing photos like that, you know it's tenanted, because an owner would be invested in showing the property in the best possible light.

This is what's stressing me out! When you see the photos of houses for sale and how immaculate they look! It's not my house to sell, I don't want to move so it's not going to look that good and definitely not in that time frame they gave me.

Also it's half term and I have 3 teenage boys, if the weather is rubbish they will be glued to their Xboxes for the majority of the week. It makes more sense (to me at least) to take photos while the children are at school

OP posts:
rodham · 28/05/2022 13:03

@Crazycatlady83 surely OP is in the strongest position as a prospective tenant with the same agency...it's in their best interests to find her somewhere else to live so the sale can go through. They'll know full well that whilst she's still living there she could delay leaving and risk the sale falling through. It takes a very long time to evict a tenant.

WombatChocolate · 28/05/2022 13:20

I would be telling the agent that you will be able to be mire flexible with viewings, when you feel confident that you have somewhere else to go to. Stress that as a reliable tenant, you are relying on them helping you find somewhere else appropriate.

All of this works both ways. The agent (assuming same one that lets it is selling it too) would like to get a sale and also have you in another if their properties. They know that a sale cannot happen until there is vacant possession. Until notice has been served to you and you are actually gone, no-one can know if or when there will be vacant possession.

I would be very clear that I couldn’t be planning to move out or facilitating a sale until I knew I had new accommodation signed and sealed. Therefore my co-operation would be dependent on them helping me too.

And I absolutely would not be looking to move out until I had somewhere else that I was happy with to go. As a tenant you have rights. You have rights to receive the full notice and no-one can expect you to leave before that expires. And if you don’t go, there are legal processes to evict, which have to be gone through and many LLs find it can take a year to evict a tenant who isn’t choosing to go. And the tenant is perfectly entitled to allow the law to proceed correctly.

So LLs and agents might hint and suggest that you MUST let people look at the property, or MUST be planning to go or not be entirely clear about the legal notice period or legal eviction procedure, because they want you to feel pressured and unsure about your rights. They want to have their cake - a rent paying tenant until as close to the sale as possible, and to eat it - a property on the market and very little void period.

Be aware that it is usual for properties to be vacant before being marketed. This is because only then is vacant possession guaranteed. I would never view or offer on a property that wasn’t vacant or extremely close to the end of the notice period. Even with the latter I would be wary, because tenants are entitled to not vacate at that date if they choose, but to wait to be legally evicted. Many do this, because otherwise they have made themselves voluntarily homeless and cannot access support. If there were more than 2-3 weeks remaining if the notice period I wouldn’t offer. If it was that period and then the tenant didn’t move out, I would withdraw from the purchase.

Therefore OP, realise you are not in such a weak position as you think. The agent should be working hard to find you a nice new place. Don’t feel you must bend over backwards to help the agent and LL. You are still a paying tenant with rights to quiet enjoyment of the property you are paying for.

And yes, of course LLs need to be able to sell their property. Yes, but when you’re a LL you have to appreciate restrictions and hurdles that exist to selling and have to deal with those ahead of selling. This is where some amateur LLs go wrong, or people fail to appreciate the full picture. Receiving rental income from tenants means you owe them rights and these rights make selling more tricky and require more planning ahead. Vacant possession is required to exchange, unless selling to another LL who doesn’t need a mortgage and selling with tenant in situ. Getting vacant possession means giving the 2 months notice soon enough and appreciating the tenant might not go and has a legal right to remain and be evicted through legal channels. People should only become LLs if they understand this process and that when they need to sel,, they will have to plan ahead and factor these timescales in and expect to have a period of no rent. If they can’t afford that or don’t want to do it, LLing isn’t for them.

I say all this as a LL.
When I want to sell a property, I plan the sale a year ahead. I aim to give at least 4 months notice and work in my mind to a worst case scenario that I might not be able to market the property for almost a year. Uusally tenants move out at their notice end point and then I do the upgrades required and aim to have the property in the market within 2-4 weeks. This means there is usually a void of no rent for a total of 2-6 months. In that period I pay council tax, utilities etc. It is simply a fact and cost of being a LL. Those costs have be considered when deciding if renting property will be variable or not. It is no good saying ‘I need the tenant to remain until the property is sold and to let people view the property as I can’t afford to be without rent’. So many LLs try this and find their sale rightly falls through….because the buyer gets sick if waiting for a vacant property, when the tenant perfectly legally waits to be evicted through the legal channels.

Intrigueddotcom · 28/05/2022 13:42

Unless your home is a shit hole

then mountain. Molehill.

just say yes and let me them in. You don’t neee to have fresh bread baking or fresh flowers!

Didyousaysomethingdarling · 28/05/2022 14:04

@Mooovingonout
Since the rental market is hot in your area, would it be possible to test the letting agent/landlords buy applying to rent something now? That way you can see if they are prepared/able to offer you a rental.
I am a landlord and recently relet a property, it had four asking price offers the day it was listed.
Might it be worth seeing if you'll be accepted on a variety of properties? Agents showing you round and you being shortlisted/offered the property are quite different.

Mooovingonout · 09/06/2022 15:10

@Didyousaysomethingdarling We applied for a house with the same agency we are with now but got rejected. The house is smaller but £25 more a month. I've acquired a ccj this year. Had quite bad health with my disability but never mind. It's been paid but I've now got bad credit for the next 6 years.

Just waiting on them to give me notice so I can move up the housing register

OP posts:
lovesweetlovesweet · 09/06/2022 16:58

Get some housing advice from the council ASAP.
It will be very hard to get a council property. You will need to go through the whole eviction process before they will move you.
You may end up in a hostel.
Try and stay in your current property as long as possible - don't let people in to view etc.

Discovereads · 09/06/2022 17:35

I’m in similar straights. Served a section 21 two weeks ago because the LL says they are selling. I refused to allow viewings point blank as I have a bed bound disabled DC and said viewings would be pointless as they could not go into my DCs room and it would be too disruptive if I’m being honest. I am disabled myself as well and said viewings also might have to be cancelled last minute if I’m too unwell to accommodate on the day. I said I’d prefer if the house did not go on the market until we vacated it, so no for sale signs put up. The estate agent agreed.

Im really stressed now about having to find a new home and move in next six weeks. Feeling like we’ve been thrown to the wolves. So I understand how you feel completely OP. You can change your mind btw and refuse viewings.

Discovereads · 09/06/2022 17:38

Oh, and we can’t go to the council for housing, I mean I and my DC could but they would not house my DH as he is an immigrant who doesn’t yet have ILR so no recourse to public funds. If we did go to the council (my DC and I), he’d have to live seperate from us or face deportation. So we have to find a new private rental if we don’t want our family to be split up.

Mooovingonout · 09/06/2022 17:49

Thanks for the advice @Discovereads, sorry to read about your situation. Renting is absolutely horrible right now.

Monday night I was in hospital as the stress got to me and set my epilepsy off. Estate agent still wants to come round and take photos. Still waiting on my two months notice..

OP posts:
Discovereads · 09/06/2022 17:57

Mooovingonout · 09/06/2022 17:49

Thanks for the advice @Discovereads, sorry to read about your situation. Renting is absolutely horrible right now.

Monday night I was in hospital as the stress got to me and set my epilepsy off. Estate agent still wants to come round and take photos. Still waiting on my two months notice..

It is horrible right now. I’m on Rightmove several times a day. We’ve gone to a dozen viewings and put in on three places but been rejected in favour of another applicant. So we’ve been working hard at it. I hope for you and I both that we find a place soon as that will help with the stress. Wishing you good luck.

lovesweetlovesweet · 10/06/2022 11:08

It's good that you haven't got your notice yet as it leaves you longer in the property. The whole eviction process can take at least 4 months so you have time xx

lovesweetlovesweet · 10/06/2022 11:16

Discovereads · 09/06/2022 17:35

I’m in similar straights. Served a section 21 two weeks ago because the LL says they are selling. I refused to allow viewings point blank as I have a bed bound disabled DC and said viewings would be pointless as they could not go into my DCs room and it would be too disruptive if I’m being honest. I am disabled myself as well and said viewings also might have to be cancelled last minute if I’m too unwell to accommodate on the day. I said I’d prefer if the house did not go on the market until we vacated it, so no for sale signs put up. The estate agent agreed.

Im really stressed now about having to find a new home and move in next six weeks. Feeling like we’ve been thrown to the wolves. So I understand how you feel completely OP. You can change your mind btw and refuse viewings.

Have you been to the council or Shelter for advice? Have they definitely said they can't help you? Sometimes Housing advice talks to your landlord on your behalf and can negotiate for you to stay.
Also don't need to move after the Section 21 (2month notice) expires. The landlord has to apply for a court order after the notice expires. Once the court has granted possession he then has to get a warrant. You have at least 4 months. Landlords don't tell you this as it costs them for the court order and warrant. They just want you to leave after the notice expires but legally you do not have to until you have an eviction date.
It's a really horrible and stressful situation to be in.

lovesweetlovesweet · 10/06/2022 11:19

I used to work in housing.

Also beware of landlords saying they are selling. Often they just want to put the rent up and the easiest way is to get rid of the current tenants and move new tenants in.

As I've said before you do not have to leave when the notice expires. The landlord wants you to do they don't have to pay to for the possession/eviction process.

viques · 10/06/2022 11:23

lollipoprainbow · 28/05/2022 12:48

I'm in the same situation, my brilliant landlord of 9 years is selling up. He hasn't sent me a section 21 yet. Luckily the estate agents have been very respectful and only come when convenient to me which I'm grateful for. I don't really have a choice of people looking round but thankfully we've only had about three viewings since February so far and always when convenient to me.

Well you do in law. You have the legal right to “quiet enjoyment of your home”, which includes refusing viewings. If you want to be helpful to the people who are putting you to the trouble, stress and expense of moving home then agree a Saturday morning when they can do an open house viewing for interested parties. But don’t feel forced into doing what you don’t want to.

Lucytheo · 10/06/2022 12:24

We had this 3 years ago and I think our landlord handled it very well - he warned us he was going to do it, got dates from us for the etsate agent to value/take photos etc and then asked us politely if we would do a basic tidy up / hoover for photos which we did - but no more than our usual weekly clean.

He then asked for dates when it was convenient for the buyers to visit and we gave a series of Saturdays when we would be out etc. His estate agent then arranged viewings on those days. Thankfully it went after I think 2 days of viewings. He also offered us an incentive of £500 if the house sold quickly to compensate us for the hassle of this and the surveyor visits (we had been there several years and got on well with him). When he had had the offer he then served us the section 20 giving us the 2 months notice and we were able to get another house fairly easily. In the end it was worth his while as there was a very short period when it was unoccupied

We were a bit put out initially but in the end happy to do all this as we didnt want bad relations with the landlord. Looking back this was the value of renting directly from a landlord rather than dealing with a managing agent etc

Could you ask for a payment / reduced rent in the last month as compensation for the hassle of him selling? If you find somewhere else can you be the one giving notice?

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