Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

[GraceJonesBiggestFan]

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

@Daftasabroom I think that's it. It's not about saying other areas don't have problems in common, just that Devon and Cornwall have additional stressors making a bad situation worse.

Look at how many in London. Airbnbs and also oligarch properties loads and loads and loads of second homes where people work on London then go home at weekend.
Not special for cornwall and problem been problem in London for years.
Rubbish ignorance thinking better than Cornwall. It's worse.

If you read the original post the OPs family were not well off. They happened to be born in Cornwall and I understand her wanting to be able to stay.

It's fair enough to move there but I can understand her frustration with 2nd home owners and Air B&B

There's nothing at all exceptional about London in this regard. Just like there isn't anything exceptional about Devon or Cornwall - except perhaps in the sense of overwhelming entitlement and superiority and thinking that they shouldn't be subject to the same pressures and challenges as literally everyone else in the world.

London has even more additional stresses. Lots of other places as well like the town I was in refuge in. Was one of what they say deprived towns. Cornwall and Devon think they special is very ignorant.

Lol. Think other way round. Cornwall people like OP think they special cases.

Was OP what brought London into this.

You could have been describing my family right in the middle of the midlands. My grandparents were 'in service' at the big house, or coal miners without 2 pennies to rub together. It's not unique to the south.

I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it.. you could lose the tourist industry and all interest in 'your' area if that were preferable?

You don't own where you were born.

OP said housing problem worse in Cornwall than London. Extreme ignorance and rubbish.

Maybe problem there but definitely not worse than London cos London very very worse for housing in UK. One of worse in world.

@ReadyToMoveIt

Interesting. My dad passed the 11+ in the late 60’s. Grew up extremely poor in the midlands, he was the youngest of 9 children, his dad was severely wounded in the war and couldn’t work, his mum worked as a cleaner. He didn’t have any tuition; if it existed there’s no way they would have been able to afford it.
He ended up doing an apprenticeship and getting a degree on day release from work. Ended up on a six figure salary. Had to move away from where he grew up for the opportunity though.

Similar here. My parents both came from very poor immigrant families, passed the 11 plus, went to very good schools. They didn't have extra tuition. I don't believe anyone did in the 1960s. I think that bit is just fabricated.

@nosafeguardingadults

Lol. Think other way round. Cornwall people like OP think they special cases.Was OP what brought London into this.

Yes. I agree with you. I think the op's claims about Devon and Cornwall are absolute nonsense and based on total ignorance of how the rest of the country lives

@Tryhard40 Yes it's our choice and we are fortunate to own our own home, but we also have elderly parents close by.

But this is a situation which is getting worse and it is completely avoidable. It taking affordable housing out of the reach of those who need it. Our road has 25 houses, three are empty 2nd homes, two are listed on Air BnB. At least four others are let via holiday management companies. Three tenants were evicted under section 21 notices last year.

Communities need a critical mass or a critical density of residents to survive. Dispersing those residents destroys communities.

Has it become worse because more people are holidaying in UK since lockdown?

I’ve seen this in Suffolk and Norfolk too, people moving from London with large budgets and pushing prices up, also a huge amount

Had a landlord who moved from Suffolk to London in 90s. Loads like that came from Norfolk and Suffolk and Cornwall and Devon.

Had a friend from Devon who got a London council flat. They then got more money on their job and moved home to Devon but kept the council flat and rented it out at high price too expensive for London locals. Was rented to rich people who moved from Suffolk ironically. Didn't stay friends and wasn't only reason but was disgusted what they did.

Pushed up prices and forced out Londoners. You been doing it to Londoners 30 years.

Communities need a critical mass or a critical density of residents to survive. Dispersing those residents destroys communities.

You right and been done to London for 30 years. OP and people saying it's better in London talking out of extreme ignorance. You saying what's happening where you are now. You lucky hasn't happened before cos suddenly everyone cares. 30 years no one cared it's been done to London. Communities already destroyed in London.

There are a number of aspects but that is one of the big drivers, when people couldn't leave the country Air BnB rates shot up, this in turn drove up the price of housing. Equally when WFH became realistic for so many more middle class professionals the opportunity to be based in the SW with visits to the office, rather than the other way round became realistic. So locals were getting either section 21s or priced out. There are at least ten family sized homes that I know are only lived in for a week a year while local families are having to move away; something is very wrong.

If you’re in the South West I’m not convinced that anyone is 2 hours from a city unless you’re on the Isles of Scilly or using public transport.

I lived in Sennen for a while and I’m sure it only took about an hour to get to Truro. I used to commute to St Austell from there a few days a week.

I used to travel an hour each day to get to 6th form in East Anglia, I think unless you’re in a city (and actually sometimes when you are) that’s a fairly typical commute.

It is pretty much the same situation as low-paid workers in London, but with worse transport and mainly seasonal work.

Compare rent prices in London with rent in Cornwall. Try London rent on minium wage. Bad in Cornwall not denying that but extreme ignorance to think it's better on London cos it's worse. Look up rents and compare the difference.

Minimum wage loads on it in London and also London has highest young people unemployment on UK.

So what? Transport in London is for tourists and non local commuters. Loads of Londoners can't afford it especially the unemployed and London has highest young people unemployment in UK.

Londoners forced out sent 100s of miles from London to homeless temp away from home. How is London transport and education for rich people from Devon and Suffolk and Norfolk and Cornwall,who move to London, helping priced out Londoners?

@nosafeguardingadults I suggest you re-read the OP. The OP refers to access to Universities, my kids had over an hour each way just to get to school.

I get that poverty in inner cities is tough but rural and coastal communities face a different set of problems. Inner city poverty is a really tough nut to crack because it's endemic and chronic, but the rural housing crisis isn't, it's homemade and the solutions are simple and achievable (and also applicable to some extent in cities).

2nd and empty homes are a massive massive luxury that do a huge amount of damage to whichever community they are located in and should be taxed accordingly.

10% of value pa to the local authority. If there are 500,000 second homes in the UK valued at £500,000 each that would be £25bn to local authorities.

There needs to be some auditing of council properties as well

Isn't this an offence as he doesn't need it

You just described Londoners situation but 30 years before started to happen in Cornwall and Devon.

OP thinks better in London is extreme ignorance and offensive. Is especially important to have that familiarity and support if DV victim, and still allowed that in Cornwall.

I know cos when tried to leave DV looked across UK. In Cornwall DV victims allowed on housing list and maybe a wait but they do get housed in Cornwall.

London is 10 year wait but loads of victims not even allowed on list and sent 100s miles away not even social housing so just temporary.

So OP wrong saying London better situation.

@nosafeguardingadults there are 2014 rental properties in London under £1400 pcm, there are 41 in Cornwall (Right Move)

A good article here: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/23/second-homes-uk-government-britain-housing-crisis

Woodhill, think is illegal now but when he did it, was before law changed. He would've lost the flat but wasn't illegal.

Even though illegal now loads still do it and get away with it.

Probably not just London thing. Happens probably lots of places maybe though if small village harder to get away with it cos harder to hide you're not living there maybe.

With about 566k people living n Cornwall and nearly 9m in London 🤷‍♀️

Don’t get me wrong, I see that things are rough in the South West and there’s a lot of deprivation but people are comparing apples and oranges