Inequality in Devon and Cornwall

[GraceJonesBiggestFan]

So there have been a lot of threads about moving to the South West recently. Many including people who have moved down and criticised the local people for being insular or lacking aspiration. Many also including comments from people like me who are offended at the suggestion and have tried to explain why local people might feel incredibly upset at the awful inequality in Devon and Cornwall, and frustrated with the lack of empathy shown by people who’ve moved down with a ton of money.

So I thought I’d break it down on a new thread, so it’s not something personal against individual posters seeking advice.

The TLDR is this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-61241981

My family have lived within the same 2 villages for over 500 years. In that time they were all collectively employed by the local landowner (Clinton Devon Estates, in various iterations over the years). They all worked as farm labourers, domestic service, blacksmiths etc. They never owned property because a) they would never have earned enough and b) they had housing provided as part of their remuneration. It was hard work, but to be fair to Lord and Lady Clinton they gave jobs for life and when for example my Grandad retired, he was able to continue living in his family house for a peppercorn rent.

My grandparents were both very sharp, but both worked from the age of 12/14 to put food on the table. So no opportunities for betterment. My Dad is very clever, but there was no way his parents could afford the additional tuition for his 11 plus, so he left school at 14 to work as a labourer. My sisters and I were all recognised by our primary school teachers as being more than capable of going to the local grammar, but the bus there was £60 a term and the uniform £120. There was absolutely no way my parents could afford this. I spent much of my childhood growing up in a caravan in a field, but still achieved 11 As and A*s at GCSE (back then this was incredibly unusual).

The kids in my class who went to the grammar school and then went on to university were entirely the children of parents who had moved down from the South East. Their parents sold houses in London, bought what seemed like a mansion in Devon. They paid for their children to have additional tuition to pass the entrance exams, paid for them to do music, sports and language lessons. Supported them financially to go to university and do unpaid internships.

I don’t begrudge them this at all. If I had the means, I would do the same for my daughter.

But I hope it in some way explains why it’s not a “lack of aspiration” that holds people here back. The inequality in Devon and Cornwall is horrific and has gotten unbearably worse in the last 2 years. People recognise inner-city poverty and deprivation, but the poverty and inequality in Devon and Cornwall is statistically much worse. Consider that if you live in poverty in London, you at least have access to many universities and can continue to live at home rent free. If you grow up in Devon or Cornwall, your options for studying and living at home are much more limited. Most people born and bred here therefore earn minimum wage. Their parents weren’t home owners themselves (so no help with buying), but are now competing with people who have grown up in the South East with all the opportunities for social mobility there are there, with all the equity from their home ownership, with much higher wages etc.

I see it now again. The kids with the rich parents who moved down during the pandemic, now lining up a ton of extra-curricular activities so their child again gets the grammar school places. The local kids left behind to be laughed at as “lacking aspiration”. The parents in their cars that cost more than most people here will earn in 8 years. The wellies that cost more than my own car. The music, sports and language lessons that cost more than most parents receive in universal credit. Getting turfed out to live in B&Bs because your landlords selling up (for extortionate London prices) or turning your home into an air bnb. We’re not “unfriendly” or “insular”, we’re just utterly heartbroken.

I couldn't agree more

Social mobility in Cornwall is shocking.

I remember the Simon Reeve show he did about the duchy last year and one lad from Camborne said " there's jobs but there's no careers" and that sums up the situation perfectly. Loads of entry level minimum wage daffodil or what ever produce is in season picking but there's no money to buy a house or spend money in the local economy. So it becomes this vicious circle where everyone is effected.

@Bumpitybumper there are loads of people shopping for a nice little lock up and leave house in Cornwall tonight, in a pretty village, and it is helped along by superfast broadband which came here quickly to try to rebalance the economy, but which is primarily a bonus for people who brought their work with them (as I did in 1990, when I moved back here) and who can work anywhere in the world with a decent Internet connection. I know former partners from London magic circle law firms locally who live here for the quality of life and whose work can be done anywhere. My DS's BF's father works in Dublin, but lives two doors away and works from home as a coder for 20/25 days per month. Good communications make all this possible and raise the bar locally, but it's never ever going to help @nosafeguardingadults,who is angry about everything but barely literate.

@MinglingFlamingo it's "affected" not. "effected". Sorry pet peeve of mine.

This is exactly what I was gonna say @Kingharoldshairstyle - the hypocrisy of the locals is absolutely sickening. It reminds me specifically of the greedy french hoteliers who have a double sided price board that they turn over when the "foreigners" come in

Many of the houses are sold on by surviving family after the elderly owner dies, many of whom moved away long ago and aren't interested in coming back or sold by people moving away for work etc.

Very few locals sell and then stay in the area, most wouldn't be able to afford it, there has been a few who sold very large family houses and downsized but those properties tend to be bought by families moving down here.

A pet peeve of mine too @Onlyrainbows , but this discussion really cuts to the mustard on educational standards. For the sake of clarity, it is perfectly possible to earn a London living in Cornwall, and lots of people do, but none of those who do earn London money have two GCSEs, and none learned their game in Cornwall. You go away to learn, study, and train.

But if you marry a local lad at 20 and are pregnant at 21, you need to have something very special to break out of shelf stacking. The ladders out from poor early life choices are pretty ruthless and unforgiving.

The south west would be bankrupt if it had to fund itself.

Its not fashionable to say and it upsets people but London subs the vast majority of the rest of the country and the SW is one of the major beneficiaries of that

DH has a small business he started. On his industrial estate, where there are three (quite high tech) specialist laboratories in different fields, not one employs a local person from the local school in any professional capacity because the standard of teaching isn't good enough, so they hire graduates from central Europe. Great for community relations? No, of course not.

But ultimately you cannot make a peasant mind into a towering intellect.

But if you marry a local lad at 20 and are pregnant at 21, you need to have something very special to break out of shelf stacking. The ladders out from poor early life choices are pretty ruthless and unforgiving

...so who do propose should do these low wage but essential jobs? not just shelf stacking but caring, porters, food production, garage work, farm labouring... who exactly should serve you your Cream Tea at Cotehele but the local bike who got herself knocked up.... really!

OFFS, 'peasant mind'. I'm surprised, with your 'towering intellect', you can't think of any reason why people might be a bit miffed to be priced out of their own community.

@bellac11 the home counties middle class have been leaching off the rest of the UK for ever, don't pretend otherwise.

I grew up in Devon as did my parents, their parents and their parents. I don't really like it that much tbh and Cornwall is far worse IMO. After going to university in the SE (despite going to the local comp in the 80's/90's - yes lots of us did it) I find people in Devon and Cornwall very narrow minded. I've lived in London too and that was awful but in different ways - I never knew who my next door neighbour was for example. Many people who grow up in Devon and Cornwall can't afford to buy there, many people who live in London can't afford to buy there. I find both wildly overpriced for what they are.

My advice to people in Devon and Cornwall is go to uni (perfectly possible no matter where you live in the country) then get a job and make money in the SE and then move back to Devon if you're desperate to live there. That's what I did - but then left again as I realised I'd grown out of it.

Strange that as a local v successful s/w and h/w manufacturing company employs no one from eastern Europe, they are booming and take skilled staff from local 6th form colleges and Plym Uni.

Perhaps these companies you say you know so well are also run by a bunch of snobs who look down their noses at local people?

Id love to agree with you as a concept but it simply isnt true. I was shocked when I saw the facts for myself

@bellac11 The south west would be bankrupt if it had to fund itself what utter prejudiced rubbish the SW and ALL the regions have been subsidising London and the home counties for centuries.

@XingMing Impressively scathing comments. It hasn't occurred to you that substandard education early in life (which is a chronic issue in SW by the sounds of things) might make it substantially less likely for someone to move away to continue into further education and other employment opportunities? Also, not everyone wants to become a 'towering intellect' working in 'high tech'? Surely this discussion is more about people who want to stay local, in local jobs, but unable to due to housing prices?

Also I'd just like to thank the poster who, at the start of this thread, decided to introduce the refugee 'who's got it worse' one-upmanship because it reminded me of this Monty Python sketch I haven't seen in years.

@LennyFitz glad you think the concept of people who have to flee their homes to avoid being murdered is hilariously funny. Well done you

The people who have always done those jobs @Alexandra2001; the ones who will never be brain surgeons or QCs. My DS has done local hospitality work, and is always employed when he returns, although he comes back briefly now. It isn't what he wants to do, but he can and does, turn his hand to what's needed to earn his crust.

Be honest, there is lots of work in caring, portering and the like, and cleaning and gardening for people who actually turn up and work. I pay £20 per hour to my gardener and £17.50 to the chap who cuts the grass but my garden is not large enough to need more than three hours a month, so it's not a job I'm avoiding creating. People are properly and promptly paid, and I have paid more than they are asking per hour when they undervalue their worth. I don't feel I need to apologise.

I dont know why you keep posting this, it simply isnt true

Unfortunately (for you), that's a load of bollocks

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/23/uk-budget-deficit-grows-to-more-than-10bn-as-people-spend-less

www.insider.com/london-and-the-south-east-effectively-provide-subsidies-to-rest-of-britain-2017-5

blog.ons.gov.uk/2017/06/12/the-wealth-of-regions-measuring-the-uks-tax-and-spending-imbalance/

The full data is here
www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/countryandregionalpublicsectorfinances/2015to2016

But @ProfessorSillyStuff , who decides? Like you my birth cert says Truro. I'm ethnically Cornish (or mostly). I also moved away when I was 18, to study and then work. I've lived outside of Cornwall for longer than in now, mostly in That London (which I don't hate by the way).

Under your rules can I get access to social housing in Cornwall? Or London? Where is a person 'from' in a modern UK?

My brother always jokes they're going to start asking for birth certificates when I cross the Tamar. It sounds like a lot of people would like that.

But there are less and less of them, simple demographics and the movement of young people leaving Cornwall because they can't afford to live here..... So why earn £10 ph doing care work, which isn't exactly unpressurised or unskilled... if you can £11 working in Tesco or £12 in a pub? and if they can become gardeners etc and can earn more than a band 6 nurse, why bother with a degree when all you need is a mower!

You do appear to have a very disparaging view of people down here.

Perhaps you don't know the sketch, but my point is to illustrate how pointless it can be to respond to any discussion with "well, you think you have it bad.... Let me tell you". It serves nothing. It adds nothing to the discussion. There will always be someone somewhere who has it worse off than whatever scenario is being discussed. Sometimes it might help people gain perspective (and very much depending on the attitude accompanying the comment), but more likely it's going to be a pretty fruitless addition to the conversation.

Yes, just do a degree, while you live in a tent, squat or pig hut. Just move away from home, you'll be successful, never mind that as soon as you open your mouth to speak and everybody hears your accent, they will snicker and make farmer jokes. You will become a target for inner city sexual predators, people will take the credit for your achievements, and you will not understand the political system because none of your teachers or parents did. OK, yes, I'm the racist and unaspirational one.

Seriously, if we aren't contributing enough to the country to support out county, it's not because we don't want to. We work hard, often unpaid, for example cleaning up flytipping on land not owned by us. We are like earthworms. I don't want to see another generation of cornish youths waste their potential at all.

Also yeah I really know Black and Chinese who are Cornish. There's not many of them for sure but they are very important and included.. Most Cornish are mixed although white by appearance. I didn't know about it being a national identity than truly ethnic, so thank you for the info about the census and law. There's no-one to ask and it's hard to know what questions to ask/where to begin even with the Internet, which is why this thread matters to me.