Where in London will be gentrified next?

[Willow1086]

Where in London do you think will be gentrified next?

I do agree that areas evolve and change, and that in different contexts different communities benefit or lose out...jalapeño - was what your family experienced labelled ‘gentrification’? I suspect not! ... but gentrification isn’t just the general change of areas. It is when areas of traditional deprivation suddenly go ‘upmarket’ and everyone except the community benefits.

Regeneration is the better version, where economic improvements benefit the whole community, with jobs and facilities accessible to all, rather than just the newly resident middle class.

Are people defining gentrification as the mass bulldozing of council estates?

North London has had Spur Road, Grahame Park, West Hendon estates flattened to be replaced by town houses and high rise housing, bringing in a lot of revenue to developers. Tenants have been ousted out - uprooted from schools, family, jobs.

The areas might look nice with their new Sainsburys, Co-ops, etc, but I do feel for people who have been uprooted. Is this what gentrification means? Pricing people out?

@littlejalapeno

Up, yes I agree with your definition of gentrification, and rich people are pricks who are out to make money. But this is also the life cycle of areas- and to give an anecdote, my grandparents we’re from Hounslow and Islington respectively and both sets felt pushed out of their communities by large mono culture immigration to those areas. So my family lost their community links in those areas and scattered to places they could afford. Now I’m not invested in this, I don’t think there are goodies and baddies, it’s nuanced and it’s life. My husband is an immigrant and I speak a foreign language fluently (not his native) and I’ve lived a different part of London where people probably see me as gentrification because I’m white and you don’t get a badge for being born in London to show you’re invested and aren’t just there for the coffee shops and farmers markets.

But let’s not have too short memory spans about community turnover and change and act like some people are more entitled to certain areas than others

Sounds like you're referring to white flight rather than gentrification.

Simply feeling pushed out is different from actually being pushed out because you can't afford a sudden dramatic increase in rent or because the high rise you've lived in for years is being bulldozed as it no longer suits the aesthetic of the area. Or burning to death because cheap, unregulated cladding has been placed on a high rise you live in with no regard for safety to patch up your home, deemed an eyesore to the middle class of a gentrified area (Grenfell).

And those celebrating the demolition of the E&C shopping centre...the real story was the demolition of the entire Heygate Estate.

Home to 3000 people who were forcibly evicted, the eventual developer-led replacement scheme had less than 100 ‘affordable’ or social housing homes. The new flats were marketed through a company that deals exclusively with foreign investors. www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/qkq4bx/every-flat-in-a-new-south-london-development-has-been-sold-to-foreign-investors

But at least those queuing in the rounds Lott won’t have to look at an ugly shopping centre for 5 minutes and it will be replaced with nice restaurants and a park.

Yes Who for?

The black orientated (but inclusive) clubs and music venues are replaced by wealthy young (white) party goers from all over London.

It really isn’t surprising that gentrification is often called ‘ethnic cleansing’ when tension runs high, and a Texan billionaire trustsfarian buys Brixton market and evicts a crucial community food store.

The champagne bars and restaurants in Brixton teem with a very different clientele in terms of race and class than the people bearing their heavy carrier bags home into the estates.

There is a race aspect and it is disingenuous to deny it.

Excellent post & I completely agree. Im white but immigrant parents & was born & raised not far from Brixton. My best friends at school were from a range of backgrounds (all immigrants) & same for my neighbours. Those same streets & schools are really homogenous now with much starker race & class divides.

This is an interesting thread. I lived in Islington while it was still in early stages of gentrification and it did lose a lot of character- so many antique/junk shops closed to be replaced with expensive greetings cards/sushi/tea shops. Also, very aware of almost two populations living in parallel, one happily using all the gentrified resources (myself included I suppose) and another who lived amongst this privilege but with it all being completely inaccessible (many of the pupils I taught). There did seem to be schools where all the professionals sent their kids, so again, divided populations. The inequalities between even primary schools and opportunities for such young children is heartbreaking.

I think I've read about a few areas where the primary school places are under subscribed & schools are looking at merging. This was happening before covid due to inaccessible prices, declining birth rate & brexit but will surely be exacerbated in the following years.

I'm gentrifying Lewisham. Truth is, I was priced out of Southwark.
Not sure gentrification is a conscious choice.

I live in East Dulwich (just). I don't have one of those million quid houses in the back doubles, but a tiny flat which I bought PBPR 20 years ago. When we bought, ED was just on the right side of ok. Now all the middle-classes moved in pushing up prices so much that yes, my flat is way overpriced now but I'll have to move out to Erith or Dartford to afford a house.

One of the biggest tragedies was Iceland moving out and being replaced by a M&S Food. We also have a Sweaty Betty, a Franco Manca, a Firezza, JoJo Mama Bébe, a Caffè Nero and a branch of White Stuff. I only use Firezza as a treat, all the other places are too expensive for my wage packet (and Franco Manca is overrated.) One of my favourite shops is a housewares place that's been there for 50 years...if they ever close I will be heartbroken.

I see many people living at my end of the Lane going shopping in Peckham where you can still shop on a tight budget (but the Bellenden Triangle lot shop in East Dulwich). Peckham property is also expensive. A lot of established families of all backgrounds are moving away, leaving this middle class bubble behind. It's not future-proof or sustainable. I myself am looking forward to the chance of buying a £3 pint , getting my hair cut for under £40 quid and enjoying a house with a small garden. East Dulwich is lost.

Franco M is sooo overrated

@UpTheJunktion

And those celebrating the demolition of the E&C shopping centre...the real story was the demolition of the entire Heygate Estate.

Home to 3000 people who were forcibly evicted, the eventual developer-led replacement scheme had less than 100 ‘affordable’ or social housing homes. The new flats were marketed through a company that deals exclusively with foreign investors. www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/qkq4bx/every-flat-in-a-new-south-london-development-has-been-sold-to-foreign-investors

But at least those queuing in the rounds Lott won’t have to look at an ugly shopping centre for 5 minutes and it will be replaced with nice restaurants and a park.

Yes Who for?

That was a royal cleansing of working class people on a grand scale. Corrupt, even. I saw a programme about Southwark council on Channel 5 a few months ago and really felt sorry for the elderly couple who were being asked to give up their spacious family home with a garden of many decades for a modern pokey 2 bed flat on the new estate that had one cupboard and a tiny balcony. They really didn't want it but they didn't have a lot of choice, because their old home was due to be bulldozed. I really felt awful for them.

@PiccalilliChilli is it weird living in East Dulwich now that it's gone so posh? I was really sad when it went that way same with Crouch end. We've just been looking around those places but decided that I didnt want all the pressure of it all and opted for Forest hill.

I find that gentrification often pushes out not only some of the more established communities but also those in regular jobs. Looking around me I find that some places still have the poor and the rich but I actually find it hard to find accessible and reasonably ok places for those in the middle i.e. not earning six figure sums but also not the really poor. For all the talk of gentrification I wonder whether that has been the biggest tragedy of all that regular families can no longer afford the place.

@THfwef2000 I can't "move up" even in Forest Hill or Sydenham. I can just about do so in parts of Catford. I think most working class people are in this situation. Probably could afford a small 2 bed house somewhere but limited by areas, and some of those areas are quite sh*t for stabbings, drugs and street crime. My husband comes from Walworth and his family have lived in Peckham and Camberwell for generations...now all of his generation are moving away. Housing is too expensive. We are on good wages for the rest of the country but poor by London standards. It's ridiculous.

@UpTheJunktion oh the E&C thing was awful - they are clearly trying to turn it into a wealthy area. Am almost hoping it fails now that no one wants fancy highrise flats. The lack of empathy is also sad. A couple of my family members are in their early 30s and bought in E&C, the amount of dismissal, mockery and general nastiness directed towards the shopping centre/estates was shocking. They just see it as shit and something to get rid in order to make it nice for them. They completely bypass the fact that E&C was home to a long standing community that is being moved in order to make way for the desirable people like themselves early 30s management consultants.......oh that made me angry

Was going to add Penge but I see a few have already done so. Massive street art scene, three taproom breweries within a short walk, lovely cafes, Victorian houses, gastropubs, two theatres and brilliant fast transport to Victoria, London Bridge, Shoreditch, Croydon, Bromley, etc

I know several who bought in Brixton in the late 60's and paid £800 for a 4 storey town house etc...sold up for 2m and went back to Barbados etc!!

But they couldn't have made £800k without the gentrification that drove up prices.

And that gentrification probably also left their children unable to buy in the area.

I think individuals selling at opportunistically high prices is something that happens in coastal / holiday areas, too. And people moving out of a city to a retirement place near the sea, and releasing capital.

But individuals making one-off bonuses from rising prices doesn't drive gentrification and the benefit to those individuals doesn't offset the effect on the area and communigty as a whole.

I agree, no area 'belongs' to any one group of people, but Gentrification happens in areas that were in the past the only places the poor could live and build a community, and now those communities are rent asunder. Gentrification is usually driven by some council - developer partnership which in theory is to 'regnenerate' for the benefit of all, with jobs and leisure centres for the community. But the commercial partners always start reneging on the social housing, bringing in chains, putting up rents...and so it takes root. And before you know it, you have a Heygate situation.

Guinness Loughborough Park Estate and Myatts Fields in Brixton, now The Oval Quarter and Electric Quarter or some such nonsense. At astronomical prices.

Prices have risen all over London, and in may places all over the country - but rising prices in Kensington are not the same as gentrification.

Agree @UpTheJunktion

Look at that stupid 20-story tower the Texan billionaire wants to build in the middle of Brixton -- nobody in the community wants it, it will not benefit anyone in the community, it will do more harm than good.

Gentrification is not just 'change' it is a specific kind of change, a sort of colonisation of a neighbourhood that drives out longtime residents.

That doesn't mean every new resident is evil or should feel bad, but the process overall is pretty horrific and some people driving it definitely should feel bad.

There’s no k missing from that figure. PP means eight hundred pounds, not eight hundred thousand pounds.

The point about gentrified areas is often they started off as very affluent middle class enclaves. You've only got to watch A House Through Time to see that. So a lot of the Brixton and SW London properties now worth several million £, started off that way, then were subdivided into cheap bedsits between the wars and thereafter, only to be bought up and converted back to single occupancy homes by young professionals in the late 70s/early 80s who are now retirement age and sitting on housing stock goldmines!

But some areas have a better mix of housing stock than others and that's what makes the difference. Tooting has gentrified in that young professional couples buy there, but really there are very few character houses of size to appeal to affluent families priced out of nearby Tooting Bec, Earlsfield and Wimbledon Chase.

Once the Brexit impacts on the financial markets hit home and COVID economic aftermath sinks in the question will be how rapidly will the gentrification start to reverse !

Enjoying all the talk re ED, Camberwell and FH

I know it all well - and have lived in the area for about 17 years, lost count.

We’re on a street where people have lived here for decades but now some are moving.

It’s quite interesting to see the jobs / professions change as younger buy

But the London they came from has gone, too. I see a lot of young grads coming to London, commuting and working in admin level posts and teh quality of life they have is worse than we had years ago. Th ecommuting stress is off the scale now - much worse than it was, there is no sense of localisation, everything is homegenous and quite sterile and most people are having to do voluntary work, etc to add to their CVs to progress. The Ondon where you could find your niche is gone and instead it all seems quite bland to me. And expensive.

sorry meant to say the London they came to experience has gone replaced by something sterile.