Panicking about moving to suburbs - WYYD?

[toburbornottoburb]

TLDR: I’m worried lockdown has impacted our requirements for what and where we want to buy and we’ll end up regretting our choice to move further out once London starts to open up again.

Insanely long version of events:

Myself and my other half had an offer accepted on a house in a London suburb about a month ago. We’re late 20s and FTBs. Our sellers have only found a property to buy in the last week and since then, the thought of us actually moving away from our much loved area in Zone 2/3 has sent me into a panic with many a cold sweat.

I fear the combination of lockdown brain and the craziness of the current property market got to us a bit and we made a rash choice based on immediate circumstances which won’t be permanent.

When we first started looking, our area and criteria were wildly different:

• Flat with garden space for dog
• Quick transport links into London for work and hobbies (I dance and take classes in central)
• Okay green space for dog
• Decent area with the classic millennial loves - coffee shops, good pubs, some bars etc
• A place we’d be happy in for at least 7 years

Somehow over the course of 6 months they morphed into:

• House
• Decent transport links
• Huge swathes of green space for us and the dog
• Excellent schools for our hypothetical children
• A place we’d be okay to live in for 10+ years if not maybe forever

I think the impact of second lockdown in London over winter (aka feeling suffocated and claustrophobic as hell) meant that we started to prioritise certain requirements over others without taking a beat. These lockdowns are not permanent, our beloved city will come back to life eventually, and I’m terrified we’ll then spend our entire time wishing we hadn’t moved so far away.

Moving to the burbs for better green space and a house was never even a consideration before the lockdowns occurred. I’m used to having activities in my immediate area - we go into central for hobbies and occasionally for a night out, but predominately our local area “nights out” are important to me - I like to support my local community. The new area doesn’t have much in the way of “basic millennial loves”…which you’d expect. It’s also full of people in quite a different stage of life to us (kids etc.)

The new list is definitely highly practical on paper and makes long-term sense, but I’m struggling with the idea that some of the reasons we're moving are hypothetical scenarios i.e. kids. We’re moving to a family focused area - we don’t want to start trying for kids for at least 2 years so we won’t actually need the facilities of a “good family area” for 3 (if all goes well), and definitely won’t need excellent schools for about 7-8 years.

My other half is far more logical and rational than I am - I’m definitely an emotion and gut person. He is quite happy with the area (he’d be happy most places as he’s far more easy going than I), and is frustrated with my back and forth (understandably)…he also loves the house. The house is lovely, but it’s the area I’m having wobbles over. He’s also stated as I’m the one who is unsure, it’s ultimately my decision…which is piling the pressure on and I don't want him to be unhappy.

If you were in our shoes, WWYD? Find somewhere further in for the shorter term to enjoy, or bite the bullet, move further out and just accept that while in the short-medium term it’s not quite the right fit, long-term it makes sense.

Our budget is approx 650K, which gets you a decent flat where we live now, or a house further out...we could extend to 700K if it was the right home.

I know it sounds ridiculous - the burbs are not the sticks and you'd think I was moving to a village in the back of beyond with the way I'm talking! That being said, I'm London born and bred so it's a relatively big change for me. Equally I'm aware of how much of a privileged position we're in to even have this (seriously first world) "problem".

We clung on in Zone 1 until our mid-thirties and only moved out when our oldest was a toddler. I wouldn't move to the burbs in your 20s unless you're very, very sure. It's a huge adjustment. (What infuriates me now is that our teenagers moan about living in our (very lovely) SW London suburb and not in the centre of London where we started!)

For your age and budget I would prefer half way house somewhere like Earlsfield but you would need to push to the upper budget.
It’s really difficult to judge zone 5 without saying where. For instance I grew up in Beckenham which is very different now to what it was. My nieces have had great social lives there as it’s a busy High Street with lots of evening social life. Trains to London though are not an hour.
But if it were Sidcup that’s a different matter.

Financially it makes more sense to do the zone 5 move but I spent my 20s, 30s and 40s in zone 3.

I'm in my 40s and don't feel ready to move out of zone 2. You could afford a nice flat in East Dulwich / Peckham if you wanted to be south east.

I live in the S E London suburbs and I love it
Myself and dh bought our house before we had dc.
We both drive so getting into London for a night out was not a problem.
We are now moving into another house in the suburbs which is semi rural.
Good bus service, local pubs, Lidl, Sainsburys, restaurants , independent shops, decent train service. Not to far from London, but with a village feel.

It's Sidcup isn't it?

Move to Forest Hill. You could get something decent with that budget and not be in the burbs.

Don't buy a flat.

With your budget you could get a 2/3 bed house in zone 3 SW London.

We lived in a flat in zone 2 west London until we bought a house in zone 3 SW London when dc1 arrived. We were 20 minutes to Victoria so getting into London wasn't a problem, but we had space to move and grow as a family.

Argh don't do it! Living close to middle of London in your 20s and 30s is brilliant. I wouldn't have left at all if we could have afforded a gorgeous house with a garden, but when the kiddies came along we wanted a bigger space (am now in my 40s and love living outside London, though do have nostalgia sometimes).

I would stay in London, it's an amazing place to live.

I've lived in zone 2/3 flat which I enjoyed (though dodgy safety wise), a zone 5 house in suburbs which we weren't keen on and properly out which we love. I do prefer a house to a flat and a flat with kids can be difficult as you need to keep them quiet. But yes suburbs can be worst of both worlds to me. I would do suburbs only if you have to. Though its difficult as financially makes more sense to move now to house. Also schools can change over 10 years and you may be paying a premium to be by a good one now which may not be good in 10 years when you need it.

Yeah, you need to tell us where it is @toburbornottoburb.
I really don’t think anyone is going to be offended about anything you’ve said about the area. So just spill the beans and people who know it can help....

FWIW I refused to move further out than zone 2. Zone 3 was too suburban for me.

I would say buy a place that’s middle ground - somewhere like Forest Hill or Brockley that others have suggested - as a potential stepping stone to moving out to the ‘burbs’. It’s a fantastic area, great bars, cafes, excellent transport links and feels very London still. Houses in these sorts of areas are rising in value more quickly than suburbs in zone 5. By the time you might want to move you will probably have made money which would help cover the costs, but if you decide not to you haven’t lost the London lifestyle.

We moved straight out to zone 5 when we had a baby, from Islington. It was a huge adjustment for me. We have more children including school age now so it suits us well, but I often think that interim move might have suited us better.

As others have said I’d go with zone 3. That’s a good balance of still reasonably central, still feels like London, enough gentrified nneighbourhoods to make living there enjoyable.

With your budget you can still get a small house somewhere like CP, forest hill, brockley, Streatham, tooting...

IMO zones 4-5 is where you start to get the drab, dreary suburban sprawl.

Hi
I've not read all these posts but we were in a similar situation. We've bought now, but I would definitely look at houses in Walthamstow, zone 3/4 , brilliant overground and underground connections. green leafy, loads of parks, quite an arty vibe. Loads of good bars and restaurants. When they reopen. And you could easily get a 3/4bed terrace with garden within your budget

I understand you don’t want to give us the name of the area you’re considering, but I think it would help since I know we all have such a different concept of what ‘suburbs’ is like.

My first place ‘out of’ central London was in Ealing Common, when a friend first came to visit , she walked out of the tube station and said ‘you live in the countryside’

It’s probably a good time to buy a flat in London, probably cheaper at the moment due to the stampeding to burbs and a good investment

Yes to Leytonstone and Walthamstow. Great proximity to central London.

What’s the best central area? Personally if I was going to move out it would need to be better then the burbs.

The last time I was able to live in zone 2 was when I was a student, over 10 years ago. Since then through the forces of circumstance I’ve had to live in a whole collection of London suburbs and post industrial wastelands. The suburbs were less crimey than the post industrial, which was more interesting. Myself and friends made our own culture on the fringes. Locals didn’t much approve, but when you’re never a local anywhere it’s hard to give consideration to that. Due to lockdown my relationship with outer London has severed, and I’m moving to a different place entirely. But I plan to take the same approach as I did before, I’m bringing friends with me in time.

It’s an incredibly personal decision. I’m a “cling on to zone 2 at all costs” type so in your shoes I’d probably find a way of buying a small house that is a bit future proof but is nearer the centre. For example if you look on the west side of Brockley (away from the lovely conservation area) you can buy a three bed house for £600-650k, in the catchment of a great primary school, but also 10 minutes into London Bridge and with all the coffee shops and wanky high street architect practices that anyone could ask for. My DH on the other hand, would rather self-immolate than buy a 1930s house . There are compromises though, you just need to be creative.

Get the nice garden flat in zone 2. Enjoy your life. You don't even know how long kids will take and if you do have one or two soon a two bed flat is fine til they primary age

Lots green space parks in zone 1 2 3

Meeting locals in suburbs is going to be easier with primary kids

We had a baby and since then rarely go anywhere (local) without bumping into someone we know. It's made me like the area much more.

I would stick with the original plan of the flat, OP. It is a really tough decision and we wrestled with a similar choice but I was sure that I didn’t want to move out of London to the family sized house in the great school catchment before we actually had children, in case children didn’t work out for us - hopefully all will be fine, but like you I was nervous about making a very child-centred move when children were not yet a reality (and were unlikely to be for a few years yet).

I also agree with PP that you either live in “proper” London or move out altogether - zone 5/6 is the worst of all worlds. We had our first baby in a zone 2 flat and in a normal world it is a brilliant place to be on mat leave - so much going on and you can walk everywhere with baby in a pram or sling. Also DH was able to get home quickly for bathtime despite a very “un 9-5” job. Hopefully by the time you have a baby COVID will just be a horrible memory and all these advantages will return.

I think this is cold feet because you’ve had an offer accepted. You might feel different kind of cold feet if you’d had an offer accepted on a lovely central flat too...and be worrying it won’t have the longevity you’ll want. It’s just cold feet about a big financial decision that’s a big step and one you know you can’t repeat too often.

I’d agree with don’t buy a flat. If you do t want to go to the burbs, get a smaller house somewhere like zone 2.

And I’d think carefully about how life will change when you have kids. If you’re thinking about a couple of years, it’s really not long and you might well find you’d want the garden and more space sooner than 7 or even 5 years. So many people realise they got their timing wrong with moving with kids. They realise that getting the mortgage is harder and that actually they might have liked to work part time in a way they couldn’t foresee, and that house prices rose faster than salaries.

If you’re going to have 2 or 3 years of child free life, I’d say it’s not long enough to justify buying a flat and the inconvenience you will then feel and the expense of moving sooner than you probably imagine.

And remember, your move to looking at the burns didn’t just happen Ona whim and without thinking about it. Your shift in focus might have been brought on by lockdown, but will have been based on some key factors too...they still apply. You need to be able to distinguish between what is cold feet and what is genuine desires in a property.

And for all those older people saying ‘stay in town in your 20s’ and ‘you’re far too you g to go to the burbs’....is that romantic you talking or practical you. For those of you who went to the burbs, and avoided all the issues of needing to move again, have you romantisicised city living as a rose coloured glasss thing? May be or maybe not. And if you stayed longer than late 20s, did you have your kids in early 30s like Op is planning? I think there’s a difference in buying a flat in central LOndon and staying there until having kids in lates 30s or early 40s and buying in central LOndon when you already think you’ll be having kids in 2 or 3 years.

It sounds boring and middle aged to say think about the practicalities and cost of moving and also about the timing, and try to see your life in the medium to longer term too. But a lot if people wish with hindsight they’d been a bit more practical sooner.

If you really want the city living, perhaps it would be good to shelve the idea of kids for longer and really live the kids-free life for longer and enjoy it more. Perhaps 2 years is too soon for kids for you and this thing about property is all tied up with that. What does the idea of staying central for another 6-8 years and being child free for that length of time feel like as an idea? Great or not great? Perhaps your gut feeling to that question might be helpful in showing you.

Basically though, if your kids timescale is pretty fixed in terms of trying in a couple of years, I certainly wouldn’t buy a flat and if you think a small house would mean you’d want to move out within a few years, just do it now.

I agree with you @WombatChocolate.
2-3 years will fly by. The majority of people once in their 30s don't go out all the time, but the ones who are sorted financially with the lovely big house are the ones who made wise decisions and had forward thinking to realise that once their partying days weren't so important they had to have somewhere to live, and the nicer they can afford the better! And they actually have more money to do the restaurants, partying and eating out anyway!! Whether it's zone 2,3 or 4 I'd buy a house with a garden if you can.