Panicking about moving to suburbs - WYYD?

[toburbornottoburb]

TLDR: I’m worried lockdown has impacted our requirements for what and where we want to buy and we’ll end up regretting our choice to move further out once London starts to open up again.

Insanely long version of events:

Myself and my other half had an offer accepted on a house in a London suburb about a month ago. We’re late 20s and FTBs. Our sellers have only found a property to buy in the last week and since then, the thought of us actually moving away from our much loved area in Zone 2/3 has sent me into a panic with many a cold sweat.

I fear the combination of lockdown brain and the craziness of the current property market got to us a bit and we made a rash choice based on immediate circumstances which won’t be permanent.

When we first started looking, our area and criteria were wildly different:

• Flat with garden space for dog
• Quick transport links into London for work and hobbies (I dance and take classes in central)
• Okay green space for dog
• Decent area with the classic millennial loves - coffee shops, good pubs, some bars etc
• A place we’d be happy in for at least 7 years

Somehow over the course of 6 months they morphed into:

• House
• Decent transport links
• Huge swathes of green space for us and the dog
• Excellent schools for our hypothetical children
• A place we’d be okay to live in for 10+ years if not maybe forever

I think the impact of second lockdown in London over winter (aka feeling suffocated and claustrophobic as hell) meant that we started to prioritise certain requirements over others without taking a beat. These lockdowns are not permanent, our beloved city will come back to life eventually, and I’m terrified we’ll then spend our entire time wishing we hadn’t moved so far away.

Moving to the burbs for better green space and a house was never even a consideration before the lockdowns occurred. I’m used to having activities in my immediate area - we go into central for hobbies and occasionally for a night out, but predominately our local area “nights out” are important to me - I like to support my local community. The new area doesn’t have much in the way of “basic millennial loves”…which you’d expect. It’s also full of people in quite a different stage of life to us (kids etc.)

The new list is definitely highly practical on paper and makes long-term sense, but I’m struggling with the idea that some of the reasons we're moving are hypothetical scenarios i.e. kids. We’re moving to a family focused area - we don’t want to start trying for kids for at least 2 years so we won’t actually need the facilities of a “good family area” for 3 (if all goes well), and definitely won’t need excellent schools for about 7-8 years.

My other half is far more logical and rational than I am - I’m definitely an emotion and gut person. He is quite happy with the area (he’d be happy most places as he’s far more easy going than I), and is frustrated with my back and forth (understandably)…he also loves the house. The house is lovely, but it’s the area I’m having wobbles over. He’s also stated as I’m the one who is unsure, it’s ultimately my decision…which is piling the pressure on and I don't want him to be unhappy.

If you were in our shoes, WWYD? Find somewhere further in for the shorter term to enjoy, or bite the bullet, move further out and just accept that while in the short-medium term it’s not quite the right fit, long-term it makes sense.

Our budget is approx 650K, which gets you a decent flat where we live now, or a house further out...we could extend to 700K if it was the right home.

I know it sounds ridiculous - the burbs are not the sticks and you'd think I was moving to a village in the back of beyond with the way I'm talking! That being said, I'm London born and bred so it's a relatively big change for me. Equally I'm aware of how much of a privileged position we're in to even have this (seriously first world) "problem".

Suburbs do vary a lot. I'm a suburban Londoner born and bred and grew up in a lovely, leafy suburb that still doesn't have shops, cafes etc near many houses, and was a bus ride away from the tube. It was a good place to grow up and I still got out into town when I was young.

I bought in zone 3 in my 20s, still definitely suburbs, no good amenities at the time (it's more gentrified since) but really quick tube ride.
Now live in a different suburb with more shops, services, restaurants and cafes, though not especially nice ones, but 5 mins from tube, which is great.

Fact is, if you want kids you'll need an awful lot of money to buy a large enough home closer than zone 3. Tbh, you'd need a lot of money full stop to be buying even somewhere small closer than that. Unless being in the middle of town really is totally your life, being in the suburbs is fine to my mind.

Stay central for as long as you can. You don’t miss what you’ve never had but you will miss what you used to have ... so if in doubt stay where you are now. I had a baby in a flat with no outside space and no real access to parks and I was really happy until she was about two years old. You’ve got at least five good years before you need to move, enjoy them!

You're late 20s? Then no, I wouldn't do it. We didn't move out of zone 2 till we were mid-30s with a child, and even then it was a wrench. I think you'll miss all the things you think you'll think you'll miss even more than you think you'll miss them!

I feel like I'm you, 10+ years on! I had this exact dilemma and in the end decided I couldn't face moving further out. So many people talk as if you have a complete personality transplant as you get older and it's really hard to imagine what's going to be important to you later on but as I was wandering down miles of residential streets with no amenities in sight I decided I just wasn't ready, and I'd stay put for a bit. We ended up buying round the corner when a bargain with compromises cropped up. I agree about lockdown, London feels like the worst place to be, and you're paying over the odds for nothing, but I think if I was thinking about starting over now it'd be a wholly different place by the sea that I'd aim for, rather than the suburban life I was imagining I'd want by now when I was in my 20s.

If you’re late 20s how long do you think it will be before you think about kids. Also how long before your friends start having kids and suddenly arent available to hang out with?

If you’re thinking kids in the next ten years then maybe the suburbs and the bigger house makes sense? I’m not from a big city so I don’t get the concept of suburbs. You either live in town or in a village round here. But I assume in zone 5 of London there’s still stuff to do without having to go to zone 1?

If you think it might be ten years before you have kids then maybe stay more central?

The alternative is you could stay in zone 2/3 even with kids, albeit with less space. But more stuff on your doorstep and possibly worse schools.

You could buy quite centrally with your budget.

This has a small garden but is right by a huge park www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/73742832#/

As is this one www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/73742832#/

If you want a tube then this flat has a large communal garden, is close to Clapham Common and the restaurants and coffee shops of Abbeville Road are on your doorstep. Also a very family friendly area.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/99515489#/

Just opposite the Houses of Parliament if you want to be really central - lots of cafes etc on the river at Vauxhall

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/90467257#/

I wouldn't do it at your age. I moved from zone 1 to zone 2/3 borders in my early forties with two children and pregnant with third so we had really outgrown our flat but it was a huge adjustment. It will kill your social life.

Honestly I'd wait, have a baby in a two bed flat and move then.

@toburbornottoburb

Sorry zone 5! Not zone 4...not that there is that much of a difference

No offence but zone 5 in south east London would send me to sleep at that age. Is it sidcup?

I just looked to see what you could get in your budget in zone 3 thinking maybe it was only flats but somewhere like forest hill you can get 3, even 4 bed places with a small garden under budget.

Or thjs lovely 2 bed

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/89608918#/
Near the tube.

We moved to z5 in our twenties, both born and bred Londoners. It suited us well - we bought, so our housing costs were lower and the area we moved to had a lot going on (Croydon - it's not lovely, but it was very buzzy ten years ago, less so now as a number of clubs and bars have closed since then) so we could stay local with local friends if we wanted. Because we also had plenty of disposable income, if we wanted to go out centrally we could a) afford to get a cab home or b) stay overnight somewhere - I didn't do trogging home from Wembley or Camden after a gig then and I definitely don't now! But it's got great transport links; 25 minutes centrally plus the Thameslink if we wanted to get further north, and the south coast is also close by.

As a PP mentioned, the years do go by quite quickly and moving house costs quite a lot. We could have afforded a 2 bed garden flat in Brockley back then - but we would have needed to move a LOT sooner than we did because we would have outgrown it faster. We're now in our 'forever' home, and a bit further out, but in our 30s with three DC it suits us.

Incidentally, a lot of the people we grew up with in Southwark/Lambeth are now out near us. Lots of people make this sort of move when they need the space, so even if you're the first to make the move you 100% won't be the last.

With your budget there’s a lot you could get in zone 3. I live in Se London zone 3 and it’s vibrant, exciting cafes and bars, brilliant schools and green spaces. Plus my good friends stayed in Islington /hackney and I can easily get to them for a night out on the overground (in 30 mins ish depending on walking time other end to the pub/restaurant). Don’t worry about offending people, tell us where in zone 5 I bet you’ll get lots of useful info!

I've two kids nearing 10. Never been a Burbs girl. We have a lovely (huge) flat, 2 mins walk from an enormous park, 10mins walk into the city centre. Great schools. People all around us.

Maybe when we retire dh and I will end up in a little cottage in the countryside, but I love living near stuff and people and noise.

Buy a lovely zone 1-2 flat and stay until you've had your first baby, at least. From what you say, your soul will indeed shrivel and die in the burbs at this stage of your life. It's too early!

I had ds when I lived in a tiny two bed flat in Hackney. Parks, cafes, friends and everything else on the doorstep. For a variety of reasons I moved 'back home' when he was 12 months old, to zone 6. I was 30 and my life contracted completely. Don't do it.

Flats are cheap at the moment in central London (yes I know 'cheap' in that sentence is relative!). You could get something lovely for your budget and it will increase in price over the 5-10 years you could be there.

And, it has to be said, plenty of people bring up entire families in flats in Zone 1 or 2. You don't even have to move then if you really don't want to. Not everyone moves out to the burbs and they still manage to have happy lives!

But whatever, it's definitely too early now.

I'm guessing it's Bromley/chislehurst area or maybe beckenham?

If so it's definitely a middle ground. I would either buy the flat in zone 1 or 2 or move further out on that budget.

We bought a flat in FH in our early thirties and now we've moved to a five bed in TW - which cost around what you're going to spend theee years ago. I don't see there's much difference between Zone 5 and moving further out but you do get more house for your money. FH was great pre kids though as it was 15 mins from the Canary Wharf bars to home!

I was born and brought up in a detached house with large garden in zone 5 south east London.

I couldn't wait to get away from the place. My DH is from the same area and feels exactly the same.
Being brought up in a flat in Central London would have been my idea of paradise.

I spent many a night in Central London stations having missed the last train home to that suburban hellhole.

It may be different these days but I swore I would never live anywhere in London that wasn't on the tube network.

We stayed in central London (z1) until we were late 30s/mid 40s, DC 1 was 2.5 and DC2 was newborn. Our flat was tiny so we had to move, but it was hard to give up all central London offered. Being central with a baby was pretty great - I used to walk to museums and galleries and wander round exhibition while baby napped.

We ended up moving out of London completely as I grew up in the London (SW) burbs and didn’t love it - as a PP said it was neither one thing nor the other. I also wanted a different type of childhood for my DC (more outdoors) and wanted to get away from the London-burb insanity of having to virtually live in the playground to get into a decent school and the endless conversations about school places / house prices / etc. It was horribly hard to leave London (I wept a lot, for quite a long time!), but worth it in the end.

So in your position I’d stay more central for now and move out if/when you have to.

Wow 700k for your first home!!!

I was born and bred in zone 5 North London suburb and couldnt wait to move further in once I returned to London from Uni.

That was 20 years ago, and I still feel the same. DH and I bought a garden flat in zone 2, our kids are 6 and 4 and we are very happy. So much going on and a real communal feel to our area.

We were lucky enough to have a basement room we have been able to convert into a 3rd bedroom, while we did that we stayed with family back in my home suburb. If absolutely made up our mind about not returning. That suburb is lorded as a wonderful place to live but it just isn't right for us.

I would say that once you have children your local resources are even more important as travelling can be a PITA.

Maybe go and hang about in some parks in your new neighbourhood to see what vibe it has.

@msbevvy

I was born and brought up in a detached house with large garden in zone 5 south east London.

I couldn't wait to get away from the place. My DH is from the same area and feels exactly the same.
Being brought up in a flat in Central London would have been my idea of paradise.

I spent many a night in Central London stations having missed the last train home to that suburban hellhole.

It may be different these days but I swore I would never live anywhere in London that wasn't on the tube network.

That's true about the last train, I don't get out much anymore but on the few pre covid occasions I've been out in London I've had to run for the last train! There's a lot to be said for somewhere on a taxi route 😀

@msbevvy

I was born and brought up in a detached house with large garden in zone 5 south east London.

I couldn't wait to get away from the place. My DH is from the same area and feels exactly the same.
Being brought up in a flat in Central London would have been my idea of paradise.

I spent many a night in Central London stations having missed the last train home to that suburban hellhole.

It may be different these days but I swore I would never live anywhere in London that wasn't on the tube network.

While I don’t doubt this is true, I grew up in a beautiful village / town which is often given as one of the dream places to live on MN. I also couldn’t wait to get away from it. What people say is quaint / rural / stunning etc etc is often actually really boring to teenagers and although I go back to my parents and see, objectively, how nice it is, I’d never ever move back.

You could easily get a beautiful 2/3 bed flat in Zone 2/3 for that or even a small house and enjoy it for at least 5 or more years if you aren't talking about trying for a baby in the next year or so.

The idea of moving to the suburbs before you have a young child is pretty miserable. What if you don't end up having a baby? What if it takes longer? It is so much easier to make friends in a new area if you had a baby, especially if you end up buying in a 'nappy valley'. Also agree that having a baby centrally is a lot of fun, especially when you just have one.

Don't be persuaded to go against your instincts...

DH and I bought in a non trendy zone 5 suburb and didn't have a child until 5 years later. Swapped Islington for it. Yes it is different but we had quick train and tube into London and were at the end of a nightbus route. It had its own high street, cinema, gym etc.

We did wonder if we should have bought in zone 3 halfway between, but I'm glad we paid one lot of moving costs and are settled.

for your budget why dont you buy a small house in Forest Hill, Brockley or even East Dulwich? The problem at the moment is that the gap between flats and houses has widened - so people find it harder to make the jump. But with your budget you really dont need to go as far as zone 5

We had this exact same debate 3 years ago. We were not engaged at the time, pre-kids etc. We were renting in S London (zone 2). We bought in SW London (zone 3 - but a good 20mins from the nearest northern line tube) for less than your budget and there are still houses in our area for sale now for less than your budget. 3 years on, we have a house that we've improved, garden, got married, baby on the way and puppy on hold until baby a bit older But the long and short of it is that there is no way i would want to be moving again and feel quite happy that actually we don't need to worry for a few years and have space for kids being little. Three years have flown by. Yes our friends are not in our area but being on the tube means we've never felt like we are missing out and pre covid just arranged to meet centrally. Like previous posters, we may end up going further out in years to come but zone 3 is working as a good compromise for us now.

• House
• Decent transport links
• Huge swathes of green space for us and the dog
• Excellent schools for our hypothetical children
• A place we’d be okay to live in for 10+ years if not maybe forever

With a 650k budget this is Zone 3 Leytonstone all day long, with Zone 2 literally down the road, and central London within easy and very convenient reach.