Panicking about moving to suburbs - WYYD?

[toburbornottoburb]

TLDR: I’m worried lockdown has impacted our requirements for what and where we want to buy and we’ll end up regretting our choice to move further out once London starts to open up again.

Insanely long version of events:

Myself and my other half had an offer accepted on a house in a London suburb about a month ago. We’re late 20s and FTBs. Our sellers have only found a property to buy in the last week and since then, the thought of us actually moving away from our much loved area in Zone 2/3 has sent me into a panic with many a cold sweat.

I fear the combination of lockdown brain and the craziness of the current property market got to us a bit and we made a rash choice based on immediate circumstances which won’t be permanent.

When we first started looking, our area and criteria were wildly different:

• Flat with garden space for dog
• Quick transport links into London for work and hobbies (I dance and take classes in central)
• Okay green space for dog
• Decent area with the classic millennial loves - coffee shops, good pubs, some bars etc
• A place we’d be happy in for at least 7 years

Somehow over the course of 6 months they morphed into:

• House
• Decent transport links
• Huge swathes of green space for us and the dog
• Excellent schools for our hypothetical children
• A place we’d be okay to live in for 10+ years if not maybe forever

I think the impact of second lockdown in London over winter (aka feeling suffocated and claustrophobic as hell) meant that we started to prioritise certain requirements over others without taking a beat. These lockdowns are not permanent, our beloved city will come back to life eventually, and I’m terrified we’ll then spend our entire time wishing we hadn’t moved so far away.

Moving to the burbs for better green space and a house was never even a consideration before the lockdowns occurred. I’m used to having activities in my immediate area - we go into central for hobbies and occasionally for a night out, but predominately our local area “nights out” are important to me - I like to support my local community. The new area doesn’t have much in the way of “basic millennial loves”…which you’d expect. It’s also full of people in quite a different stage of life to us (kids etc.)

The new list is definitely highly practical on paper and makes long-term sense, but I’m struggling with the idea that some of the reasons we're moving are hypothetical scenarios i.e. kids. We’re moving to a family focused area - we don’t want to start trying for kids for at least 2 years so we won’t actually need the facilities of a “good family area” for 3 (if all goes well), and definitely won’t need excellent schools for about 7-8 years.

My other half is far more logical and rational than I am - I’m definitely an emotion and gut person. He is quite happy with the area (he’d be happy most places as he’s far more easy going than I), and is frustrated with my back and forth (understandably)…he also loves the house. The house is lovely, but it’s the area I’m having wobbles over. He’s also stated as I’m the one who is unsure, it’s ultimately my decision…which is piling the pressure on and I don't want him to be unhappy.

If you were in our shoes, WWYD? Find somewhere further in for the shorter term to enjoy, or bite the bullet, move further out and just accept that while in the short-medium term it’s not quite the right fit, long-term it makes sense.

Our budget is approx 650K, which gets you a decent flat where we live now, or a house further out...we could extend to 700K if it was the right home.

I know it sounds ridiculous - the burbs are not the sticks and you'd think I was moving to a village in the back of beyond with the way I'm talking! That being said, I'm London born and bred so it's a relatively big change for me. Equally I'm aware of how much of a privileged position we're in to even have this (seriously first world) "problem".

Sorry, I meant zone 5. We bought in zone 2 when we were in our 20s. Totally loved it. Moved out of London to a regional city and hated that I was in the burbs as I felt we didn't fit in. All was fine once we had a baby and couldn't go out anyhow. The burbs will wait. As a PP said, buy a 4-7 year flat.

@Apparentlystillchilled

You're in your 20s? No way I'd buy in zone 4 if you enjoy central London. It will be a pain to get home late at night. Buy somewhere you're excited about and think about schools etc in 5 years, when/if you have children.

Really? The tube runs all night now as do many trains, or it's a 30-40 min taxi drive from central London to many parts of zone 4 London (yes this will be pricey but more than off-set by the savings on the house unless you are really going out every night). People on this thread are talking as though she's moving out of London altogether. I lived in zone 4 London for many years (North not South admitedly) and we had coffee shops (albeit Costa/Starbucks not independents), pubs, bars, a huge selection of restaurants, a local theatre and arts complex, gyms and sports clubs, clothes shops (again more chains and small indie shops than designer brands), cinema etc etc all within 15 mins walk of the house - I'd say that's not atypical of most London areas. Yes OK it's not the West End or Oxford Street but if you want that whizz into central London which is still within very easy reach of most of zone 4? Not saying everyone has to live in the suburbs of course, but it's really not the empty, dire hinterland hours drive from a lemon some people are making out!

@toburbornottoburb I think I am!! When I saw your post it just made me realise other people have (what I realise is) a very fortunate problem, but it didn’t help my indecision.

We’ve been in the flat for over a year and we had a bit of a wobble over lockdown, but I’m definitely happy with the decision now things are opening up again.

Zone 5 will kill your social life. I had friends who moved there—“had” being the important word. At a certain point outside London you’re getting no city benefit at all, you might as well move to a far cheaper area and live in a palace.

Look around this site at people talking about skyrocketing housing prices and not being able to move up the property ladder when the timing is perfect.

If your life plan includes having a family, the smartest thing you can do is get into a house with access to good schools before you desperately need to be in a house with good schools.

I think the sensible financially sound answer is you take a running jump at the property ladder and buy something that's a good long term fit. But you could live closer as others are saying.

The 5-7 years until you need good schools does rather fly past (sorry). I remember saying exactly that when I bought my house. My friend was convincing me of the area because of good schools and I dismissed that because I was 28 and didn't need schools until I was 35 at the earliest, 37 as it turned out! I am glad now that I dont need to move again.

I know London is a different beast and it's a bit like me wanting to live in Manchester but ending up in Preston. How long is it going to take to travel into central?

.

Maxelly, sorry I can't quote you. Would you mind sharing where in Zone 4 that was if you're comfortable with it? The area we're looking at definitely has some of those things, but not everything.

Another point is that the vast majority of my friends still live in zone 3-1, they do also love going out in the surrounding area. Getting back there would be a pita compared to what we're used too, but again something we might be able to live with and get used to.

@MixedUpFiles

Look around this site at people talking about skyrocketing housing prices and not being able to move up the property ladder when the timing is perfect.

If your life plan includes having a family, the smartest thing you can do is get into a house with access to good schools before you desperately need to be in a house with good schools.

Definitely sound advice and one my partner made also. Thank you.

@ZenNudist

I think the sensible financially sound answer is you take a running jump at the property ladder and buy something that's a good long term fit. But you could live closer as others are saying.

The 5-7 years until you need good schools does rather fly past (sorry). I remember saying exactly that when I bought my house. My friend was convincing me of the area because of good schools and I dismissed that because I was 28 and didn't need schools until I was 35 at the earliest, 37 as it turned out! I am glad now that I dont need to move again.

I know London is a different beast and it's a bit like me wanting to live in Manchester but ending up in Preston. How long is it going to take to travel into central?

Roughly about an hour by train and tube to most places we head to in central vs to 25-30 minutes it took on the tube.

Over an hour back to where our friends mainly hang out...which atm is a big worry.

[quote Chihuahuacat]@toburbornottoburb I think I am!! When I saw your post it just made me realise other people have (what I realise is) a very fortunate problem, but it didn’t help my indecision.

We’ve been in the flat for over a year and we had a bit of a wobble over lockdown, but I’m definitely happy with the decision now things are opening up again.[/quote]
Haha! I'm so glad you're enjoying your flat and that it was the right decision for you.

I can't wait for Monday and for things to start reopening properly again!

I would stay where you are for now and see how life is when London is back to normal.....

@toburbornottoburb

Maxelly, sorry I can't quote you. Would you mind sharing where in Zone 4 that was if you're comfortable with it? The area we're looking at definitely has some of those things, but not everything.

Another point is that the vast majority of my friends still live in zone 3-1, they do also love going out in the surrounding area. Getting back there would be a pita compared to what we're used too, but again something we might be able to live with and get used to.

I don't mind saying, it was one of the Finchley's, but a lot of North London would be similar, Muswell Hill/Hampstead/Crouch End/Highgate all have a lot going on but would be more expensive than Finchley, which in turn I expect is more expensive than the part of South London you're looking at. But schools are good (primaries can be tricky re catchments) and for your budget you would get a small house and with a little garden easily enough....

He’s also stated as I’m the one who is unsure, it’s ultimately my decision…which is piling the pressure on and I don't want him to be unhappy.

He won't be unhappy. Believe him when he says he's happy for you to make this choice. It's taken me YEARS to realise that my easy-going DH actually means it when he says, "It's up to you."

Don't move out of London if you're not sure you want to. Just don't.

Plus if he wants kids with you, he should be marrying you. Don't feel pressured to make any long-long-long-term decisions if he hasn't even proposed.

I didn't get married until 40 so enjoyed the city life fir a lot longer. I moved to limit of zone 3 and had two kids - and spent my days pushing them to the coffee shops etc - desperately trying to get out of feeling confined to the house! Luckily things were still in walking distance. I then moved much further away due to other reasons.
I'm a city person and now my kids are teens we are all moving back. Five minute walk to cafes, restaurants, tube, park was top of the list. I can't afford zone 2, but I'm as close as I can get! Costs a fortune- I'm trading a detached house with pool and two investment flats for a house half the size of my current one. Worth it though.

Forget my last post. You might well be married. (I just went all feisty on your behalf there, and invented your whole life!)

I think it definitely depends on the suburb, if there really is nothing there in terms of entertainment it might be a bit of a shock to the system. But lots of the zone 3/4 suburbs as discussed have lots of independent pubs/cafes etc.

Where do you friends hang out, if you don't mind me asking?

I get being worried about leaving friends behind, but in the next few years things are going to change a lot anyway. How much can you see them now anyway? Move to a new area and you will start to make new friends.

I dont know. There's such a thing as being too sensible. It depends if you're 25 (in which case look for something a bit more lively) or 28, in which case I think you will only be a couple of years ahead of the flight of friends from central London and you will pay more for it if you leave it.

We inherited our house in zone 4 SE London back in 2008. We were mid 20s at the time and my god I hated where we lived. We were constantly getting trains and night buses to see friends who all lived in Camden and Clapham etc.

Now... well.... none of my friends live in those places anymore. Most have kids, several have left London and we don't go out that much anymore.

We have local pubs and coffee shops we love, we have loads of green space for our kids. I love my local high street and I've made local mum friends.

We totally moved here too early to appreciate the burbs lol but now we really do.

Where are you in zone 2? To behonest your price range would get you a house with a garden in catchment area for good schools in zone 2/3 , near lots of parks south of the river. Not a big house, but a house. Zone 5 south is different to zone 5 North imo. However I think Bromley is in zone 5 and people love that. Chislehurst too (though not what I call London).

It's not Sidcup is it? LOL. That's where I live. We moved from Greenwich when I was 34 and my first born was a toddler.

It was for the big house and the good schools and 12 years later I don't regret it but it was an...... adjustment.

I would choose the house in the burbs, even if it's a little earlier than you planned.
DH and I moved out of a city centre after we got married for a house in a village. It was at peak market in 2006 so we paid top price and choose a village that was good for commuting but only ok schools. I think we felt awkward considering schools because we weren't ready to have DC just then.
Fast forward 5 years, 2 DC and wanting to move for better schools, house now worth less than we paid, basically our deposit gone. We did move for schools but it was hard financially and we all pretty much lost all our friends made at play group and pre school.
So what I'm saying is, life happens faster than you think. DC in a few years is no time at all and it's not always easy or possible to move houses when you want. Better to buy the biggest/ best/ most future proof house you can manage.

Hi OP

In your late twenties, do you want to be moving into the house that you will live in for the next ten years, if not forever? Some people would love that and others find it stifling. Equally, how often do you truly see your local friends now, and how integral to your life and happiness is easily being able to maintain those friendships without lots of organisation? Some couples are real homebodies in their twenties and others very social.

It’s also hard to say without knowing where exactly you mean, but there is every chance that a flat with a garden in zone 2/3 will gain more value over the next few years than a house in zone 5, though yes of course there’s stamp duty to think about.

I am 31 and live in a flat in zone 2, and am expecting my first baby. Occasionally I worry that I will find having a child in a flat in nearly central London hellish, but I suppose time will tell! Certainly at the moment I love where I live and would emphatically not want to live in the suburbs.

You will know better than anyone what actually brings you happiness on a day to day basis and, within reason, should work to that, rather than theoreticals. If you have a healthy budget and secure jobs I don’t see why you can’t buy a nice spacious flat now and a bigger house down the line, if you so choose.

If you're in your 20s I'd stay zone 2/3 and live your life for a bit longer - when things properly open up, how brilliant will it be to have everything on your doorstep again! Plus, you don't know what's round the corner. We had a flat in north London on zone 2/3 border and prices shot up so much that we were able to sell it and buy a house in the same neighbourhood, albeit a doer-upper that needed a lot of work. So now we're still in the same place in our 40s with everything on the doorstep still and our DD at a brilliant local secondary and I'm so glad we never moved out!