Things my mother has said to me about my house hunt, a list.

[TheIris]

I feel like I could explode, so I am going to type this on here to prevent me from sending her a grumpy message!

For context, I am a FTB. She bought a house by herself, once, in 1982. She sold it in 1986 when she met my dad. They haven't moved since. I am one of three siblings and the first one to be in a position to buy my own house, so the first one to go through this!

1. I am "stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid" to think that it would be very tight to meet the stamp duty deadline, even if I put in an offer tomorrow. Apparently searches don't take long now at all "because it's all online" and so right now I can "exchange and complete in a month."

I said I had been monitoring the news and market and actually solicitors have a massive backlog right now and they were issuing warnings back in Nov/Dec to say that people might not make the deadline even if they had offers accepted then. "Oh you've read the news so you're an expert? You've never bought a house before, I have!"

2. I won't actually have saved my full deposit until end of April so I can't actually go house hunting just yet. "You don't know that. If you ring the estate agent and tell them about your circumstances it'll be fine. You can put an offer in and by the time it goes through you will have saved the money."

I tried to explain that in order to apply for a mortgage the bank would need to see the full deposit so I can't put an offer in now, but apparently I am wrong. You can offer on a house without having your deposit ready! (I mean, considering she thinks it'll complete in a month then I'm not sure how she thinks I'll have a deposit by that time but oh well.)

3. Estate agents are apparently fine with speculative viewings "just out of interest." Maybe they are in usual times (I don't know?) but surely now, they are only offering viewing to serious buyers who are in a position to move? Right? Funnily enough I am wrong.

4. The only people who use mortgage brokers are those with dodgy employment and poor credit. Apparently all brokers will fleece me. Yes, even the free ones. All I have to do is go to my bank and they will offer me the best deal.

5. I am a fool for looking for a house with extension potential. If I need an extra bedroom in a few years' time then I will just be able to buy a bigger house. Silly me!

6. I gently tried to suggest that things have changed in the 40 years since she bought a house. It did not go down well. Apparently I think I have all the answers.

She then said that she needed to hang up now because I was upsetting her so much. Er, ok? You rang me and the first words out of your mouth were that I was "stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid."

Anyone else have a mother who refuses to accept the world has moved on since 1982?

Yes. Since 1967 in fact, relating to property.

Since then, my mum has often put the phone down on me. That has got worse over the last 10 years as I have stood up to her on various issues.

Do ask questions on this site, perhaps not this thread, about anything you need to know. I think there is a property section.

I am moving soon, not having bought since late 1990s, so perhaps a more modern approach is called for.

If it helps op you are certainly right about the time it takes. We put an offer in and was accepted in August. We were ftb and the house was empty. It still took 4 months to complete. Unless they extend the deadline I seriously doubt you would complete in time. And if you did complete in time, you wouldn't have the deposit anyway!

Mine has never bought a house at all (married my dad who already had one), never saves a deposit, never run a household budget or even financially supported herself (always houses my the me on her life) and has never even done the weekly grocery shop or cooked (my dad’s domain).

It has never stopped her waxing lyrical on ANY of those subjects, though. Ignore as much as you can. Short answers. Change the subject. Don’t engage. You won’t get anywhere by entering into discussion.

Sorry for the autocorrect gibberish!

Many of the same things applied back then as they do now, though you could get a personal search done and be ready to exchange in a week. But you are right on every point at the moment. And even in non covid times I have been a cash buyer, clean survey, seller keen to move on and it still took four months.
You just have to say 'yes mum' and bite your tongue, then proceed as you know you have to.

I would protect yourself as much as possible and really not engage in conversation about any of this. She sounds so toxic!! Poor you! Go ahead and rant on here as much as you like!

I upset my mum because I’m having a baby and things have changed in 40 years and told her that unless I asked her for advice I wasn’t interested in what she had to say 😬😬
I got told off for putting on too much weight because she only put on a stone... that felt good! And my mother is lovely and helpful so god knows why they don’t listen to themselves sometimes!!

Mine has recently been advising me on online dating. Apparently my views are completely wrong and she knows much better. It should be noted that I have previously done internet dating, a lot, she's been married to my father for 45 years.

Apparently I think I have all the answers

You may have some of the answers but you don't have them all.

1. It is unlikely that you would meet the stamp duty deadline but not impossible if you instruct your solicitor prepare contracts without searches and take out an indemnity to cover this. Not recommended but doable.

1. There is absolutely nothing to stop you from house hunting before you have your deposit. The house buying process takes months (and months) before you would be required to put down a deposit.

1. Many Estate Agents are fine with viewings without a mortgage in principle. They are obliged to pass on any offers they receive on a property. It is up the the vendors if they accept or not.

1. 100% agree with your mum on brokers. Go direct to the banks/building societies first. Go to a broker when you are refused by a bank/building society.

5.Nothing wrong with looking for a property with potential but there is also nothing wrong with buying a property that doesn't have potential to extend either.

1. No, buying houses is still the same as it was 40 years ago. Stressful, expensive and a minefield.

Personally I think you need to reign back your know it all attitude and listen to your mum. But somehow, I doubt you will. And something tells me you won't agree with me either.

I do 100% agree with your mum about brokers, however, I think you need to take a huge step back and stop talking to her about anything personal or dealing with buying your home. If she starts up, and the conversation. There's just no winning with people like her.

Are you the OP's mum, @notangelinajolie?

Some of the points are a matter of opinion and I'm not going to argue with them for the sake of arguing. But on the deposit - you do need to have it very soon after having agreed a deal. The bank and solicitors both need to see proof of funds. If you don't have it at the start of the process, no guarantee you will by the end of it!

And I personally went to a broker when I wasn't happy with what the bank offered me and they found a much better deal, at no cost to me.

Op ignore the people saying don't go to a Broker! Go to a whole of market broker and they can get you deals that you and the banks are potentially not able to offer you. Going to the bank is the equivalent of not shopping round for a insurance quote and just going with the renewal, a huge mistake financially. The broker will know the best mortgages for your situation, do all the paperwork, all the chasing and generally make your life so much easier! And I am not a broker, I have used a broker however for both of my house purchases. I genuinely don't understand people that don't use them, why would you not want the very best deal you can? It is not the olden days, your bank have absolutely no loyalty to you and can obviously only offer products from their own bank, even if their own product is not the best for you and your circumstances.

I certainly agree with your mum OP about the stamp duty, no way would you complete in time now, not a chance. We sold our house SSTC in Oct, still haven’t exchanged, very uncomplicated chain, no one requiring a mortgage etc. Solicitors are really busy x3 workload, our survey took 4 weeks to get an appointment, searches are taking longer etc.

The process hasn’t changed in years & years, still a complete PITA. Very stressful & lengthy.

Viewings should only be with people in a position to proceed and subject to gov guidelines.

Good luck OP. It’s a shame your mum isn’t being more supportive though, my mum would be exactly the same, she loved to criticise me at every opportunity, one of the many reasons we have been NC for many years, thank goodness.

We have been looking recently and the first question we were asked was whether we have a mortgage offer- which you would need your deposit for. Lots of agents aren’t allowing viewings without proof of the ability to buy at the moment, so she is very wrong there.

My parents struggle to understand why I don’t have thousands saved, because they were able to and I “earn a lot more”. The fact that they had a mortgage that was less than £100 a month and whilst that was a huge chunk of their income in 1965, by 2000 it wasn’t so they could save massive amounts

Ooh I don’t know why so prickly @notangelinajolie. I haven’t bought a house before, so I’ve done lots of reading and asked my friends who have bought during the lockdown. I would say I have a touch more of an idea than someone who last bought 40 years ago, though I freely admit I am not an expert, why would I be?

All five of my friends went to a broker, as apparently they can offer you some good rates that aren’t available on the market. Also so many threads on here say “go to London and Country, they’re great,” so I may as well give them a go.

Round here I am told that estate agents are asking to see proof of mortgage in principle before accepting people for viewings. Now I may very well be able to get an agreement in principle but I can’t put an offer in unless and until I am actually ready to proceed. Right? As once your offer has been accepted then you have to begin the actual mortgage process? It is my belief that I can’t say to the bank, “please process my mortgage application and trust me when I say I will have the deposit in April,” but maybe I am wrong!

Thanks for all the supportive posts. Sometimes she can be very caring but other times her rage comes out of nowhere. She finds it very hard to accept that ‘things are different’ now. I have so many examples but I won’t bore you!

We have been looking recently and the first question we were asked was whether we have a mortgage offer- which you would need your deposit for. Lots of agents aren’t allowing viewings without proof of the ability to buy at the moment, so she is very wrong there

I agree. Where I live it’s part of the lockdown code of practice for estate agents. Most of them offer video tours to minimise in person viewings . They also check that you have a mortgage in principle before they let you view, especially if you are a FTB. Some are even require your solicitor to confirm this.

Where I live the market is very hot, so some agents won’t let you view if you are a FTB on furlough, as that can cause problems getting a mortgage. Basically they don’t have to - there’s plenty demand from people who have cash or finance in place so can exchange quickly.

It’s a tough time to be a FTB.

@TheIris - there’s no point in trying to persuade your mother. Just tell her less about your search and / or try to change the subject.

Round here I am told that estate agents are asking to see proof of mortgage in principle before accepting people for viewings.

Depends on the house, the vendor, the agent, the state of the market. Lots will not want to entertain time wasters, howeever well intentioned, only for it to fall apart for lack of finance. For example a hard to sell house that's been on the market for ages, they will want to get anyone through the door and will be prepared to wait for you to get finance together because they just want a buyer - any buyer.

A house in a chain that's broken once already and has lost of interest will be a different matter altogether. They want a new buyer who is in a position to proceed immediately to hold the whole thing together.

The other angle is that lots of agents have in-house brokers now and want a bite of the cherry. If you can't show that you've already got finance in place they are going to pressure you to speak to their broker. One way to pretty much guarantee that you might do that is to act as gatekeeper to a property you want to view. No mortgage offer yet? No problem, make an appointment with our broker now and we'll book you a viewing. No broker, no viewing.

Whether the vendors are aware of this tactic goodness only knows but if they are locked into a 16 week sole agency contract what are they going to do about it?

Also lots of people do view houses speculatively and completely on a whim. That's not to say they won't sometimes buy them (they will) but it's true there are and always have been a lot of time wasters who are just nosey daydreamers. Having a mortgage offer in principle shows that you are serious about buying.

When I was reading that I was imagining your mother being Maureen Lipman as Beattie, anyone else?

If your mother is like this now, prepare yourself for her inevitable disappointment of your choice of house when you do buy! Sincere good luck for any future purchase though.

@notangelinajolie

Apparently I think I have all the answers

You may have some of the answers but you don't have them all.

1. It is unlikely that you would meet the stamp duty deadline but not impossible if you instruct your solicitor prepare contracts without searches and take out an indemnity to cover this. Not recommended but doable.

1. There is absolutely nothing to stop you from house hunting before you have your deposit. The house buying process takes months (and months) before you would be required to put down a deposit.

1. Many Estate Agents are fine with viewings without a mortgage in principle. They are obliged to pass on any offers they receive on a property. It is up the the vendors if they accept or not.

1. 100% agree with your mum on brokers. Go direct to the banks/building societies first. Go to a broker when you are refused by a bank/building society.

5.Nothing wrong with looking for a property with potential but there is also nothing wrong with buying a property that doesn't have potential to extend either.

1. No, buying houses is still the same as it was 40 years ago. Stressful, expensive and a minefield.

Personally I think you need to reign back your know it all attitude and listen to your mum. But somehow, I doubt you will. And something tells me you won't agree with me either.

I’ve never heard of anyone not doing the searches. Even when a delay in them meant the sale might fall through so I feel like that one must be unusual enough that you are being awkward for the sake of it.

Also you could house hunt without a deposit but in our case that would have meant lying to estate agents to get viewings and the process falling over at offer stage when the estate agent asks you for proof of ability to proceed.

Op you will get mixed opinions about brokers. We got offered a free consultation so we went for that but I did my own research first and the offer she found us during that free consultation was in line with what I found from high street banks. She tried to spin it as her services (£500) were worth it because she’d deal with all the application for us but honestly it was easy and I felt like she was really patronising! We picked a bank we already banked with and just had a face to face appt so we could ask all our idiot first time buyer questions. No stress.

Ha, I was going to say go to London and Country, they're great! They are!

My mum nearly lost her house a few years ago but it was all going to be fine, all she had to do was go to the council and they'd give her a council house... The irony was, she'd bought a council house in the first place but could not understand why, therefore, council houses were now in very short supply...

@TheIris I think your mum is on here..

It is tight for stamp duty, many of the banks surveyors are tight for time and it’ll be pushing it, but doable. Do go to a broker, going to a bank they’ll only offer you their products and you might have to declare you’ve been turned down.

As another said a whole product broker is worth their weight in sourcing you a bespoke product.

Some agents due to COVID are vetting buyers position before allowing viewings.

Good Luck, it should be an exciting time for you!

Oh but we did get our Mortgage in principle without a deposit. We got one with our bank just to see how much we could borrow without having even looked at a house before we’d saved up for deposit . So if you felt the urge to be proactive you could do that now they tend to be valid for 6 months

I've moved 3 times in the last 15 years across several counties and couldn't disagree more with @notangelinajolie

Searches usually take ages.
I've never viewed a property via and state agent without being asked to give a copy of my mortgage offer in writing.
I've never been able to get a mortgage offer in principle without pricing finances
Looking for extension potential (even in the loft) seems sensible vs the cost of moving again.
I've always used a mortgage broker and have one I trust. Just takes all the hassle out of it all. In fact, I don't think I can recall any of my friends not using one either but maybe we're unusual.

My mum wasn't as bad but always has a 'worst case' view. So most of the houses I've viewed have been 'money pits' or 'too close to the motorway (3 miles away)' or 'rooms aren't big enough'. I'm the first time I bought it really upset me but I've learnt to just block it out

You absolutely don’t need proof of a deposit to get a mortgage in principle
You can get one on the Barclays website just by typing in your salary and deposit size...

Even when you move to the full application, they would be happy to see the majority of the funds
So if you’ve got it all bar a few grand in an account, a screenshot plus ‘more coming from another source at the time of completion’ would almost certainly be fine

She is wrong about brokers though
We got a better deal from London and Country than the same bank could offer us if we went direct...

It’s probably best to accept you won’t meet the stamp duty deadline as you don’t have a big enough deposit. You could buy something cheaper needing a smaller deposit. Just tell your mum you don’t have the money unless she gives you some for the deposit gap right now - please mum! Happy days for everyone then. (Just joking!)