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Woodburner - health risks

198 replies

SecretOfChange · 19/12/2020 13:49

Just came across this article: amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/18/wood-burners-triple-harmful-indoor-air-pollution-study-finds

What do you make of it? Real issue? Paranoia? Has anyone heard anything like this before and from other sources? Thanks.

OP posts:
nextdoorshush · 19/12/2020 13:50

real and fairly obvious when you think of it

BluebellsGreenbells · 19/12/2020 13:51

Rubbish

You open the door slowly and let the hot air rise along with any particular - they swirl round and you can see them!

When the inside is clear you add a log.

They don’t cause problems

Bluntness100 · 19/12/2020 13:58

How folks have survived in so many parts of the world till ripe old ages with only open fires in their homes beats me,,,,😂

nextdoorshush · 19/12/2020 13:59

well they haven't have they.. life expectancy back in the days of everyone having open fires was a lot less

Raxer26A · 19/12/2020 14:00

/\ This

AbsintheFriends · 19/12/2020 14:08

From the article: In fact, our research has shown that PM2.5 can enter our bloodstream and increase our risk of a heart attack or stroke

I'm quite sure this is true, and the issue of air pollution shouldn't be minimised, but unless they state what the increase in risk actually is, and from what percent to what increased per cent, it's pretty meaningless.

Bluntness100 · 19/12/2020 14:41

@nextdoorshush

well they haven't have they.. life expectancy back in the days of everyone having open fires was a lot less
I didn’t say back in the day? I’m talking about now. Many countries in the world peoooe rely on open fires and live to very old ages

#readingcomprehensionfail

Also, even if I was daft enough to talk about years ago, which I’m not, as I know people like you are on here, life expectancy increase is not to do with central heating but due to many elements such as medical advances and better nutrition.

However the point remains, in many countries globally people heat their homes with open fires today and live to ripe old ages. In fact many of these countries have higher life expectancies than we do

nextdoorshush · 19/12/2020 14:47

haha you're a muppet . do you believe smoking cigarettes is harmless too

Dongdingdong · 19/12/2020 14:49

I was on another thread where a poster said that if they walked into a country pub on a cold winter’s day and there was a fire burning in the grate, they would turn round and walk out again. Honestly some people are so miserable and paranoid that I’m amazed they manage to leave the house!

Pipandmum · 19/12/2020 14:57

@BluebellsGreenbells you can't see most of it - you can't see most pollution either.
Yes I've heard this - it's not news. Its one reason that installers check the ventilation in a room. I have two but mainly use one. My room is large with high ceilings and open to two other equally large rooms, and I hold my breath when opening the door to refuel - not sure if this helps much.
Like all things you weigh up the risks. I have a friend who has an open fire every evening in winter in a much smaller room; I wouldn't do that.
I'm sure chefs that cook over fires and BBQs have higher risks of certain illnesses too.

BiBabbles · 19/12/2020 15:08

There has been a lot of research on this, so risks of these have been known for a while. Ones commonly used in the UK aren't likely to be entirely comparable to ones used throughout much of the world like the ones discussed in this National Geographic piece described as:

"The typical cooking fire produces about 400 cigarettes’ worth of smoke an hour, and prolonged exposure is associated with respiratory infections, eye damage, heart and lung disease, and lung cancer. In the developing world, health problems from smoke inhalation are a significant cause of death in both children under five and women."

Yes billions of people use open fires and it's been known to be a health risk for a while now, and some live to old age in varying degrees of health, but there is a higher rate of health problems and deaths associated with long-term exposure to woodburners often depending on factors like ventillation, type of stoves, and so on.

It isn't paranoia or otherwise irrational to discuss how long-term exposure is an issue and to weigh those against the benefits & ways to improve the situation with better technology, just as it isn't such a major issue of instant suffering and death that people need to try to avoid them at all costs. There are ways to balance and reduce risks for those who really want them in their homes or work with them for the benefits they give.

Crazzzycat · 19/12/2020 15:09

There is no safe minimum level of PM2.5, so any level of exposure is a serious issue. This has been known for a while and led to the ban on the sale of wet wood that was introduced in England last year. Dry logs release fewer PM2.5, but burning those is by no means harmless.

I’m fairly certain that if woodburning stoves were just a life style accessory that they would have been banned a long time ago. I have one in my house (put in by a previous owner) but never use it. We just had an extra radiator put in instead

MrsJamin · 19/12/2020 15:28

I'd never live with one and would advise anyone against installing one. The evidence is clear www.mumsforlungs.org/campaign-blog/2020/12/4/wood-burning. I think there will soon be legislation against installing them in the near future.

PresentingPercy · 19/12/2020 16:15

So would open fires in fireplaces be banned too? Surely these fires are not the same as inhaling nicotine? We light ours several times a month. We have our open fire on occasionally. Little and often is fine I suspect. I’m not going to increase the use of either of them.

I do know people who have these fires attached to flues and not chimneys. I think then they are a lifestyle choice. If you have one in a fireplace and use it sporadically it’s ok.

As for life expectancy - a functioning health service helps!

Chumleymouse · 19/12/2020 17:31

I wait till it’s just glowing coals till I put the next wood in , that way it’s just heat and nothing burning. But I like to get a whiff of burning wood outside it smells nice on a winters night ,

There’s too many humans on this planet anyway so a few less of us can’t do any harm 🤣

lazylinguist · 19/12/2020 17:44

How folks have survived in so many parts of the world till ripe old ages with only open fires in their homes beats me

Same way some people survive to ripe old ages while smoking, or eating lots of processed food, or leading very sedentary lifestyles etc etc. The risk factors add up, including having log fires or woodburners. They're really nice, but I don't want one for precisely that reason.

Shadowboy · 19/12/2020 18:43

I’ve got a PM2.5 meter actually. I’ll bring it home and test it one night.

feesh · 19/12/2020 18:59

I’ve flown over the U.K. on a brilliantly clear and sunny, cold winter’s day, and the thousands of little plumes of smoke rising up towards us as we flew over was quite eye-opening. I used to think of them as pretty harmless, but that single flight was a bit of a rude awakening as to just HOW much smoke all those thousands of tiny fires were producing.

Changi · 19/12/2020 19:08

I’ve flown over the U.K. on a brilliantly clear and sunny, cold winter’s day, and the thousands of little plumes of smoke rising up towards us as we flew over was quite eye-opening. I used to think of them as pretty harmless, but that single flight was a bit of a rude awakening as to just HOW much smoke all those thousands of tiny fires were producing.

Oh dear, how terrible! Just think, all that smoke added to the exhaust fumes from the plane you were sitting in.

Chumleymouse · 19/12/2020 20:24

I’ve flown over the U.K. on a brilliantly clear and sunny, cold winter’s day, and the thousands of little plumes of smoke rising up towards us as we flew over was quite eye-opening. I used to think of them as pretty harmless, but that single flight was a bit of a rude awakening as to just HOW much smoke all those thousands of tiny fires were producing

That’s bullshit........ when ours is on it produces hardly any smoke when up to temperature, it smokes a bit on start up. So there’s no way it could be seen thousands of feet up in the air . 🙄

Changi · 19/12/2020 20:37

when ours is on it produces hardly any smoke

That's a good point. Our neighbour wouldn't believe we actually used our fires because he never saw any smoke coming out of the chimneys.

MrsJamin · 19/12/2020 20:50

People who are giving reasons for having fires, your excuses sound like how people talked in the 1970s about smoking. Your heads are in the sand. It might look, sound and feel wonderful but your real fire is a terrible idea.

Bargebill19 · 19/12/2020 20:53

Wouldn’t be without ours. Main source of heating. Preferable to hypothermia.

WoolyMammoth55 · 19/12/2020 20:56

@Bluntness100 To answer your point, here's the academic study that proves it's currently killing people and has done for centuries:

"The indoor air pollution in cities across India, south-east Asia and Africa was comparable to that of Victorian London.

“This is not the air pollution we see in modern cities [in the rich world] but that which we had 150 years ago in London and other places, where there were coal fires indoors."

Polluted air killing half a million babies a year across globe
www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/21/polluted-air-killing-half-a-million-babies-a-year-across-globe