Woodburner - health risks

[SecretOfChange]

Just came across this article: amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/18/wood-burners-triple-harmful-indoor-air-pollution-study-finds

What do you make of it? Real issue? Paranoia? Has anyone heard anything like this before and from other sources? Thanks.

The Guardian hates log burners because they are a symbol of the affluent trendy middle class.
Article is mostly agenda-driven scaremongering - if you have a wood burner that's in good condition, the house has appropriate ventilation, & you don't load logs like an ape, nothing to worry about.
Scented candles are far more of a hazard.

I have an air quality monitor which measures PM1/2.5/10 & an open fire I burn wood on - There is absolutely no measurable decrease in air quality in the room with the fire going, because my chimney works.

It's why I stopped using ours a year ago. I have a serious lung condition and it was told to avoid fires / smoke.

It was an article in The Telegraph too.

I’ve noticed lots of MN posters like their oil, gas and solid fuel heating. Numerous heads in the sand. Not a great welcome for renewable power.

Not a great welcome for renewable power.

It gets a great welcome in our house. 100% renewable electricity and the firewood (it grows an trees) significantly reduces gas consumption.

@PresentingPercy

For some there is no other choice.

@Changi

True.

There’s always electricity from renewable sources. That will be the norm in 10-20 years when old appliances breakdown and cannot be replaced. So there will be change but no choice.

There’s always electricity from renewable sources

We have that already but heating our home with it isn't a viable proposition due to the cost.

You cannot get enough electricity from solar or wind power to heat a boat. You a not even run a washing mashing on a cold cycle on a really sunny day in the summer. Zero chance of any heating in the winter time - day or night.
So the chances of heating a house - nil.

Other our neighbours have solar panels on their houses. Both have wood burners and either gas heating or ground heat source heating. The wood burners are their main source of heat due to costs.

I wonder what the mechanism is. When hot, the burner sucks air in from cooler room and pushes it up (chimney). The draught direction is driven by thermal gradient. How do so many particles escape from that process backwards, back into the room?

I wonder what people who suddenly stopped using their burners have done with all their stored logs & kindling.

Bloody obvious to anyone with asthma.

I have asthma and a woodburner as our home has limited heating options. Would never burn wood on it - my lungs can tell the difference between seasoned wood and briquettes (much better) and I hate walking round the village when it smells of smoke from everyone's chimneys.

And scented candles are a bloody nightmare too. I've needed steroids from 20 minutes sat next to a reed diffuser and my asthma isn't even that bad.

@AnnaMagnani

Not all asthmatics react the same though. I have asthma. A clean, serviced wood burner or multi fuel stove poses no problems to me. But a garden bonfire or non smokeless coal has me reaching for my preventer within minutes.

Different things affect different people. We can’t ban everything.

@MrsJamin

People who are giving reasons for having fires, your excuses sound like how people talked in the 1970s about smoking. Your heads are in the sand. It might look, sound and feel wonderful but your real fire is a terrible idea.

This. Also Times 17 Nov. Naish. Also many others. Research. Try a meter if you still think burning is fun. No stoves even so called eco stoves. No bonfires. Don't set light to anything, ever.

(Unless, of course, you have your own private planet. Then, poison away, the soil, the air, the sea, the water courses, the underground water, the ice caps. The plants and animals and every creature, filled with plastic micro particles and chemical contamination. Great fun if it really amuses you. Just not on a planet which doesn't belong to you.)

Not being able to see contamination doesn't mean it isn't there. Chernobyl may look like a lovely woodland scene, but it is radioactive. Your bonfire, your woodstove are poisoning us all. You can't let off little nuclear explosions to amuse yourself at the cost of the entire planet, for ever.

There are some people who deny Covid19, some who are even more dangerous cannot get it into their heads they must take Climate Change very seriously very fast. No avoidable consumption, no avoidable contamination, no avoidable plastic, no avoidable chemicals, no avoidable travel, no avoidable new clothing, no adding to the human population explosion, no avoidable waste and no burning .

And just like the covidiots thinking it is amusing to kill others, or to have as much contact as is not strictly illegal, try instead to use your own brain. The government in this country hasn't banned single use plastic, so you avoid it yourself. The government in this country hasn't banned non essential flights, so you avoid it yourself. The government in this country has not banned wood burning, so you avoid it yourself. The government in this country hasn't banned fast fashion, despite a world groaning under ten years' worth of surplus clothing for everyone on the planet. So buy secondhand.

There's a lot of poor knowledge of sustainable energy in this thread. Solar energy if placed properly, with batteries for storage, is enough to run a well insulated house with an air source heat pump for most of the year. Of course you need to make sure your electricity is sustainable, so choose octopus or bulb. Just because you can't smell poisonous gases doesn't mean they don't exist 🤦🏼‍♀️- the worst are invisible and don't have a smell. You lot probably still idle your cars because you believe its good for your car to do so.

Have a woodburner - means we use less oil. Replaced the oil boiler a few years back (it was 30 years old and running fine but guzzling oil - the savings in oil consumption will just about have paid for the install by now).

Old house, like much of the UK's stock. Some bits VERY old so cannot be better insulated. We shut doors and wear more clothes. No mains gas. No income so current funds have to last rest of life (plus pension). Installation of electric heating/solar etc etc prohibitively expensive.

would be interested to see evidence for battery technology and properly placed solar for UK latitudes.

there is no such thing as sustainable energy. Don't fall for the greenwash from Octopus, Bulb or any others. All bollocks. Just because the wind farm (with its diesel backup) isn't visible from your London townhouse doesn't mean it isnt causing problems with cut down trees, infrasound and short lifespan.

suggestions for Londoners as well as everyone else:
stop buying crap
have fewer or no kids
have no pets
don't travel unless necessary - be in lockdown. If you want to change things, you need to give things up. Encouraging your brats to play truant once a week does nothing

do not install floor to ceiling bifolds and open plans
do not sit outside the school with your chunkmobile engine running, dicking about on the phone. If you've time for that you should have walked.
do not use outdoor heaters; patio heaters, chimneas etc. Boycott restaurants that do if they ever open again. Wear more clothes.

The main problems with ‘renewable’ energy is that it just shifts the problems elsewhere.

Look at the way batteries etc are made and the ecological and human cost of doing so.
Look at how much it take to produce solar panels and wind turbines, how long they last and what the end of life process is.

The idea is brilliant - execution not so good.

I’ve lived with using alternative sources and being self sufficient for 21 years - it really isn’t that easy or as simple as a lot of people think. Again the idea is good but the reality is very different. If you want to explore further just check out battery maintenance and usage in various online forums!

I just bought some scented candles (which I WILL light soon) so I guess the woodburner isn't really gonna make things worse.

@PresentingPercy

It was an article in The Telegraph too.

I’ve noticed lots of MN posters like their oil, gas and solid fuel heating. Numerous heads in the sand. Not a great welcome for renewable power.

You do know that it is not always a matter of liking oil heating, more of a matter of there being no gas connection in some rural areas. Are people supposed not to have heating in this situation?

Everyone who complains about logburners stays well away from processed foods and alcohol, I presume, and doesn't drive, ever?
I am fed up of living in a cold house because I can't afford to run the (gas) heating and am bloody looking forward to installing my logburner as soon as I've finished saving up for it.

@HarrietSchulenberg most basic & stupid comment so far. well done
just because other things risk isn't a reason to pile on more health risks than necessary

My first degree is env science, my second industrial hygiene...They directly conflict somewhat... For years I've refused to have a diesel car or wood burner/open fire in the house due to research and concern around effect on lungs and asthma to people (especially children) in the local environment.... Despite them being more 'env friendly'.

I also wouldnt pick a school or house next to a busy motorway for same reason (realise not everyone has that luxury). Unfortunately it's harder to avoid being next to houses that have a wood burner and think it's fine as they have decent extraction so it just builds up outside their house rather than in it.

The tide seems to be slowly turning awareness wise on these two things.

And no I don't sit in car with engine running, have outside heaters, scented candles or even those horrible plug in things (purely because I hate them) 🤪

Log burners are only cheap to run if you have free wood. Even living in the country logs are expensive.
When we first lived here 30 years ago oil was dirt cheap. It's cheap again at the moment though hasn't always been.

I wonder what people who suddenly stopped using their burners have done with all their stored logs & kindling
Mine is all sitting in the garage. My stove, a multi fuel, now unused has a back boiler as well so is a very useful heater.
I have asthma, bronchiectasis and aspergillosis. Was advised by respiratory cons to avoid fires among other things.
We have no gas, central heating is oil but without the stove the living room is cold even with the heating on. When we stopped using it we replaced it with electric heaters.
My electric bill rocketed but overall it was still cheaper than buying wood and smokeless coal.

I have no gas and I do live in a rural area. You will be forced to have renewable energy in the end. We have air source heat pumps for a big house. I can fully understand it’s expensive to install but we’ve had it for 10 years with no issues. We do want solar panels but neighbours have a tree where they should go! We had oil before.

It will be a case of changing ideas and attitudes. I totally agree that people are ill informed.

@nextdoorshush

well they haven't have they.. life expectancy back in the days of everyone having open fires was a lot less

Yes, this.

It's a real issue, just because you can't see it doesn't mean you're not breathing it in. Woodburners are a serious public health problem indoors and outdoors. I know they are talking about bringing in restrictions in cities, but I think they should do so everywhere tbh.

I live fairly rurally (Yorkshire Dales) in a small village where lots of people have woodburners, and the air is noticeably worse quality when I go out running on a chilly evening. You can smell the smoke, and my asthma gets noticeably worse. It improves once I'm away from the village, but the fact that a small village can have such poor air quality is eye opening.

Log burners are only cheap to run if you have free wood

Logs were a fraction of the current price before logburners became trendy.

We cut our own, although firewood is only really 'free' if somebody else delivers to your door cut and seasoned at no charge to you. Trees cost us nothing, but there are costs in time, petrol and equipment.