Woodburner - health risks

[SecretOfChange]

Just came across this article: amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/18/wood-burners-triple-harmful-indoor-air-pollution-study-finds

What do you make of it? Real issue? Paranoia? Has anyone heard anything like this before and from other sources? Thanks.

@Chumleymouse

It also has to be a workable solution. Yes cost plays a big part - it has to be affordable. I wish it wasn’t so- but that’s reality.

Sometimes you have to stop and think about being eco friendly. We like to have heat - cheapest, easiest, least polluting way is have a wood or multi fuel stove. This is not replaceable by using solar energy. (The pint of this thread is wood burners).
We could fit solar panels, but they won’t provide enough power all year. So we will have to find a mainstream alternative to plug the gap - electric generated by other means. Plus by the time they have paid back the investment - which for us has worked out to be 20 years (we are very frugal in use) at which point the solar panels will need replacing.
Our Diesel engine and generator will still be going strong in 20 years (and longer) with annual serving costs still totalling less than the installation of solar panels over the same time period. Yes diesel may not be available - separate problem. The stove will also still be functioning in 20 years with correct usage. Maintenance costs are less than £10 per year. And we don’t need so many batteries with their own ecological problems. An engine can be recycled, can dead solar panels?

So do we keep what we have and works or do I switch to a system which cause more consumption during its life time than a perceived worse solution - which actually uses less of our natural resources.?

Everything we produce comes from our environment at its starting point. Somethings such as trees are more readily replaced than mining lithium and other raw materials. Or is it a case of - so long as the effects aren’t felt in our back yard - it’s eco friendly and doesn’t matter?

I can imagine that a wood stove on a narrow boat would only need to be small and not use a lot of wood to heat such a small area, ours is only a 5kw and it can heat the openplan area it’s in to 28c in a couple of hours ( it gets too hot sometimes).

I used to cycle across the canal on my way to work when I was young, it was always colder down there and in winter when the boats were iced in they all had the wood stoves going and a nice smell of woody smoke in the air. 😀

@Chumleymouse

You are quite right. I can collect boaters gold for free - enough to heat the boat for six months 24/7. Keeps you warm three times!
Left to season and dry for a year it’s perfect for the job.
We have sat in shorts/ t shirts with windows open whilst it’s freezing outside. 😊 got some funny looks through the window!!

Wow I didn't expect so many responses! I just installed a woodburner so won't exactly rush to uninstall it, but I can still consider how often we will be using it. There's a lot of pleasure in connecting with nature - I think fire feels so good precisely because of that. So yes would be good to understand how much of a risk it all is...

@PresentingPercy - lol to functioning health service

@Shadowboy - can you report the results of your PM2.5 meter?

@Bargebill19 - yes preferable to hypothermia, definitely I also suspect that woodburner when used alongside central heating is the cheapest way to heat the house, because you heat up the living room with the woodburner and the rest of the house can then be just 'warm enough' but not toasting.

@FurierTransform - brilliant thanks for that! I might buy a PM2.5 meter one day but I have to recover from my renovation expenses first Very helpful.

Yep, wood burners are a hot topic 😀 , I work outside and today was a absolutely miserable day , heavy rain , cold , soaked by the time I got home . Sitting in front of the fire when I got in is one of life’s luxuries, I don’t think lying on a floor with ufh would be quite the same . 😉

Actually getting out of wet things in a bathroom with ufh is wonderful. It’s comforting.

Exactly how many people live in boats? Not millions one assumes? Do I care how they heat boats? Not really. I do know that there will be issues over replacing gas and oil boilers and even wood burners might be phased out. You never what what Carrie will do next.

I mostly drive an electric hybrid. Electric on short journeys.

Hi @SecretOfChange, if you've just had one installed then I think the key questions are around exposure for children/the elderly/pregnant women.

We just refurbed too but were made aware of the risks by a GP friend and so didn't install one - we have a toddler and I'm pregnant with our second and there's no way I'd expose either of us or my growing children to the risks of frequent use.

I do appreciate a hygge snuggly fireside evening as much as the next person - but then I could also murder a McDonalds quarter pounder with cheese as dinner option most days, and I choose to make better choices for my health instead of going there. Woodburners are in the same "nice but they'll kill you" category for me!

[I do appreciate that there are many people whose choices are constrained by finance/logistics, and/or who are habituated to using one and therefor inclined to dismiss the risks - fully understand all those reasons for using one but none apply to us, which make it a no-brainer.]

@PresentingPercy

Thank you so much for not caring about 20k plus people who live on boats getting cold and dying. Truly hope you don’t fall in and need rescuing next time you go near a body of water.

No gas where I live, just oil and 2 open fires (I only use one though, lit it for the first time this year tonight, was lovely). Also a diesel 4x4 (ULEZ compliant though), a child and multiple pets. Shall I get my coat?

@Shmithecat2

What ! You own a coat ? How very environmentally wrong to want to be warm and dry.
I too have a diesel 4x4. Amazing how many people want help during the floods.

@Bargebill19

What! You own a coat? How very environmentally wrong to want to be warm and dry.

I do own a coat, yes. Several in fact - none of which are made of regurgitated lentils. For shame.

I too have a diesel 4x4. Amazing how many people want help during the floods.

Indeed. Or when it snows. Or need a large item picking up/dropping off. Or an airport rum because of all the boot space. They're quite agreeable then

Oh yes they love us when it suits them. Otherwise, back in the cupboard we go. 🤣

If you watch a program like grand designs for example, they build super insulated houses with modern heating systems, ufh, triple glazed etc. But 9 out of ten of them always seem to fit a woodstove 😃

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the link to dementia yet from open fires? It is still a new area of research but ties in anecdotally with my own extended family.

@RIPWalter how is the air heat source heating system going? Did you install in a new or old house?

Lying on a floor with ufh is great! Plus, you know, it doesn't have nasty chemicals to breathe in. And yes I can't stand 4x4s, I live in an urban area with narrow roads and the amount of people who drive them far outweigh the amount of people that need them for jobs they do. They are too wide and polluting. I have never needed help from someone who has one, thanks.

Is that the underfloor heating that uses gas ( fossil fuel) or electric that’s produced from fossil fuel ? M

The risk has been known for years. In the UK homes are often kept shut because of the cold weather for many months. I would not have one. There is already so much pollution inside and outside the home. Why deliberately bring more in.

We're currently on gas but are moving and will put in an air source heat pump, solar panels and underfloor heating. Obviously gas isn't ideal either but it's not toxic for us to breathe in our own home.

@MrsJamin we are doing the same. Are you keeping any radiators on the upper floors?

Oh and also @Chumleymouse people who put a wood burning stove in a grand designs highly insulated house have more money than sense! They often say that they don't use them and are mostly decorative. We all need to get over the idea of having fires in our homes, it's unnecessary and unsafe.

Haven’t read all the thread, and partly place marking for later, but there must be some risk to wood burners, which is such a shame as I love mine and use it a lot in the winter.

My ufh is air source heat pumps. You can get hybrid 4x4s. Short journeys on battery power.

Why is this thread dominated by boat people? What they do is not here nor there in any debate about fuel. Actually at the canals near me I see lots of windmills and solar panels. I suspect generators power heating and water and electric but that’s ok for the small number of people they represent.

In cities there has to be a move away from fossil fuels. Remember the clean air act?

My neighbour never has their chimney swept. It emits disgusting fumes. No it’s not ok to pollute other people’s space.

My fire places are decorative. We are highly insulted and don’t need them. We kept them when we remodelled. Just easier than ripping down chimneys.