Another moved out of London to wrong place help me decide next move one

[mds2012]

After being inspired by this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/3588315-Made-wrong-move-out-of-London-Help-me-get-it-right-second-time I thought I'd start my own. I have posted before on this but we never decided what to do for the best. Our situation has changed a bit now too so here goes….
We moved out of London over five years ago to a small Surrey commuter town. I immediately felt like we'd made an error. We did a lot of searching around the M25 corridor at the time, and also looked at staying where we were in Crouch End, but thought we'd get more for our money outside of London and were worried about the schools too (though I now know this was silly). Anyway we ended up here because it wasn't quite as unknown as other places as my DH knew two people here. And I had a friend in Tun Wells so not too far.
I can't quite put my finger on what it is about here I don't like. It's partly caught up with the massive motherhood change. I had a bad experience first time round and I probably now associate a lot of the places here with all those feelings I want to bury! But it's five years on - surely I should be over that now? It just doesn't feel like a me place. There are many executive houses here and range rovers, though there ARE many normal houses and cars too, and I question myself to that too - why is my environment impacting on my happiness so much? Am I being really judgemental?
But more than all that it's just doesn't suit me I think. I miss having buzzy cafes and a bit of liveliness really. I miss having parkrun on my doorstep or a farmer's market. I miss where we were - it's quite a leftie/creative part of London and had a nice community feel with loads of green space. I found the other thread very interesting as the OP talks about the feel of a place - it's difficult to describe that really. Where we moved to is great on paper but the feel is a world away from what I was used to.
I mistakenly thought here would feel like where we were in London but in the country. As it's a similar size. I wasn't keen to move somewhere like Tun Wells as I thought it would be a bit impersonal. I was after a community feel. The trouble is where we are does have that, but I just don't seem to be settling!
I'm not 100% sure of what would be best for us. I'm not sure if we need to be back in London or we just haven't found the right place outside of London. We have no pull of family so there is no natural place to head to.
I miss London but unsure whether London with kids is the best thing to do. I don't know what the reality is with kids there. Yes I take them up there a lot but I don't live there. Also the things that people move out for - crime, pollution, business.
I thought I wanted to live in the countryside. But the thought now of being very rural freaks me out as I'd feel so isolated. I think if my circumstances were different, maybe it would work. My husband's long hours and lack of family nearby mean this would be a no no here. However I'd like my children to have some freedom and green around them like I did growing up. I liked Crouch End, and I also like places like Lewes - that sort of feel to them.
This is our situation - my DH works all the hours under the sun. Sometimes he can work at home but it's probably once a fortnight. He can often get back for school things but is chained to his phone and laptop. I took redundancy and am now freelance 3x week. It means I can do all the drop offs/pick ups. This is wonderful but I'm also slightly nervous that we're off down the road of me doing all the childcare/mental load/career dwindling and never seeing my DH. I need to work. I enjoy it. Freelance is fine for now but perhaps once the DCs are older I would like to go back to employment. I work in the creative sector. So London or another big city would be the best for me to find work. DH is tied to London for his work.
One thing we do have now (which is why our situation has changed) is a good budget. We have £2m. I don't have to commute to a specific place in London. DH commutes to the city. Parents are southwest and East Anglia (helpful!) and friends are mainly scattered across the southeast.
These are the ideas we've been thinking about:-
Move back to Crouch End or another part of London (we've 'narrowed it down' to Richmond (seems like great area with kids, green, on river but worried about plane noise and also perhaps a bit 'Surrey') or Wanstead (access up to Suffolk, easy commute, green, seems more me, nice community but worried bit suburban, unknown)
Move over to Tun Wells for a bit more life?
Move completely away to Bristol or Norwich/flat in London? (Will be nearer family support but further from friends. DH will still have to be in London so will I feel even more isolated?)
Go rural to Suffolk/flat in London (Go for seaside living v close to ageing parents, but do not know anyone and DH will still be in London)
Just stay put and possibly get a flat in London for future/more weekend visits?
So have we missed anywhere obvious we should consider? Any advice from anyone? I think part of the problem is I'm not really sure what would be best for me and my family, so we're looking at all options at the moment.
Thanks if you've stayed with me!

OP, if you feel that Crouch End would be too busy and crowded these days, I'm not sure if you'll find Dulwich, Richmond, Wimbledon, Barnes etc any better.... All these London 'villagey' areas tend to have mostly terraced houses jammed in together and the green areas are full of people. You would get the benefit of nice shops, bars and restaurants and the London vibe, though.

Further out, say a fair bit of zones 5 or 6, it's a lot quieter, plots are much bigger so you get some breathing space. It's easy to access central London as well as the countryside (it's a 15-min walk to a field with sheep from my house in zone 5). However, you'll be really compromised in terms of the high street. Every suburb we looked at in our search, had a generic high street mostly of chain shops. Personally, I feel that it was the downside of moving out from the 'villagey' zones 2&3. Having said that, it is possible to have a lot of creativity in suburbia: we've got a lot of artists around and are looking forward to the open studios weekend coming up. There are also some musicians and producers around etc.

The point I'm getting at is that there are compromises in any location and you'll probably need to prioritise what it is you need right on your doorstep and you want daily access to. And what stuff you need less often and therefore can drive to once a week or so.

I would concur with many on here recommending Barnes, Dulwich etc. My colleague had a gorgeous big house in Kew, good primary schools etc but understand about the commute to the parents.

You could get an amazing house in Brighton for that budget, sea on one side, Downs the other, lots of parks and "village" local areas with nice cafes etc. Horsham is another good commuter type town with a nice centre and lots of great properties in your budget.

We left London (grew up there too) 10 years ago and may need to get work again there soon but can'tafford to buy back. It's good to keep a foot at least (even a flat you could rent out) in the London market. Wish I'd done this as a couple of my DC had to move to London after uni for work and spend most of their salaries on rent.

My friends in Crouch End moved to Palmers Green once they had kids and they've been there ever since as they love it. Kids are now tweens/young teenagers and seem to have a packed social life with rugby clubs, amateur dramatics, ballet, all sorts of stuff. My friend is very active in the local women's small business networking community. Other North London friends also headed out to Southgate (one of them 'officiates at the Grovelands Park Run mentioned earlier) and seems to have a very full social life - he commutes into Canary Wharf.

I can't imagine Tunbridge Wells working for you. It's not very diverse (but then Oxted isn't either). I live in London (E1) but I do voluntary work in Tun Wells. Every time I pop into Sainsburys there it freaks me out. Everyone is so white!!!! And so terribly polite. Makes me realise how accustomed I am to the diversity of Tower Hamlets/Hackney as I feel very uncomfortable in such white, middle class areas these days. Maybe I'm just weird.

It's a shame your DH won't consider Hackney as you have the budget to buy somewhere just north of Victoria Park around Lauriston Road. Such a lovely area, it has a real village feel with great restaurants and a thriving community for kids and creatives. I love it.

Someone upthread mentioned Woodbridge, Suffolk and I know it has a lovely community of friendly creatives as my friend is part of that 'world'. Great shopping too (and I write that as a snobby Londoner) as well as being on the water. I would love to live there (ideally I'd commute between my fantasy house on Lauriston Road and my fantasy weekend cottage near Woodbridge). Shitty commute for your DH though.

Margate is now home to a lot of creative Londoners but it's not the best commute to London. Part of the town is still very Brexit supporting and rundown so probably not 'naice' enough for you although you could buy a stunning house overlooking the sea with your budget.

I second an earlier recommendation for Folkestone (or Sandgate or Hythe). Fast trains to London for your DH and it's very up and coming, with a great creative hub. You could afford a beautiful house here.

Just jumping in as I see you've asked about Wanstead and I live there . It's a really nice place to live especially for young families It has a proper thriving high street with lots of independent shops and lots of parks and greenery as well as two tube stations. You'd get an amazing house for your budget as well. In terms of vibe it's not Hackney cool but it is buzzy and diverse and definitely feels like London rather than the suburbs. Its got a great sense of community as well. If you want something grittier you can always pop down the road to Leytonstone which feels much more inner city London!

how about Cambridge? With your budget you could get a really nice house near the station and Mill Rd, lots of cafe culture there. Then Cambridge is very green, and 45 mins from Kings Cross, also on Thameslink, and Liverpool St, and obviously already in East Anglia? If you live near the station, you won’t use a car often, as it’s easier to cycle everywhere

Also live in wanstead and agree with below comments

Lovely professional families beautiful green space great restaurants and shops. 20m commute to city. Right near Epping Forest md wanstead Park.

Visited once 11yr ago and lived here ever since couldn't believe somewhere so nice existed in london

You'd get a 6bed house for 1.3m

@mds2012 Not going to lie, schools were a massive consideration and a massive headache moving back, to the point where DH and I were considering living in separate countries for a bit. There were a scary couple of months moving back and trying to find schools we like and I suppose it did have an element of risk involved, but we felt that as long as we could find the right secondaries we could work around the primaries (nearby preps, homeschooling if need be). As I mentioned, we felt that our gamble might be mitigated slightly if we chose a slightly less competitive area (brought up myself in a place where competition for school places was fierce and though I don’t remember the pressure, I have seen from friends and family how ridiculous it is getting). Anyway, our hunch was right and all now safely settled in fabulous schools. It probably was the scariest aspect of moving to contemplate in hindsight, but young children do tend to be resilient and ours seem to have enjoyed the adventure 😁

+1 for Dulwich

Best place in London for families IMO

Wanstead is nice too, but it’s jot as good as Dulwich - depends what side of London you want to be on for a sword exit out (Epping or Surrey hills)

I used to live in Wanstead and highly recommend. Ds1 went to little bears on the green which was a great nursery (also many more to choose from)

The park is excellent and always clean and the ice cream can does the best Mr Whippy ice cream - EVER

Down the road is southwood for either Waitrose, M&S or Sainsbury's. Or a little M&S in Wanstead.

Nice pubs - cuckfield and the duke is great.

Also Redbridge have some great schools

I too don’t understand why you would look to move even further from London when you have £2m, you want to up your work and DH works all the hours in the city.

Get something near to north Dulwich station and in catchment for Dulwich hamlet primary.

This is a renovation job but fuck me it will be such a total beauty. Look at this garden!!! Look at the location!!!

Dulwich Village, London
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-71494324.html

If I had £2m I would be all over this like a rash.

@Racheyg and Wanstead has a Gails, don’t forget that :-) so tasty!!!!

(Dulwich has one too)

@BlueSkiesLies yes I love Gails, the french toast is to die for 😍🤤

I've never been to Dulwich - sounds like my kinda place 😁

That Dulwich Village one is a beauty

It’s not all terrace central there

@mds2012 I'm probably being a bit harsh about Ealing. I've never lived there but the part I visited seemed a bit sedate/extremely suburban. It never seemed like a place where very much happens although that might be an attractive prospect!

Several friends have moved to Wanstead so I'm quite familiar with the area now and I think it's wonderful for families. The proximity of Epping Forest, good schools and the whole family vibe would work for you.

I also forgot to mention Epping which I think is a lovely area and an easy commute into the City.

I understand re Hackney. As a PP mentioned there are some lovely family areas here but it is daunting if you don't know the area. Unfortunately the gentrification plus overspill from Islington families looking for slightly cheaper family homes has pushed out locals and it has become a bit too cool for school but that's a whole different conversation!

That Dulwich house is ideal - Dulwich Hamlet then Charter School, sorted! And no end of greenery between Dulwich and Bel Air Parks, and Sydenham Woods. It really has the village feel within London.

That Dulwich house must literally have the best plot in zone 2 :)

It’s a beaut isn’t it?!

OP, I think you'd find Barnes and Kew very red trouser brigade based on what you've said so far. Teddington also heading that way. Plane noise too much.

Hampton/Molesely/Kingston might better fit your bill? Despite popular opinion, the stretches of river in Kingston are far less developed than the small stretch at Richmond, and the park at Kingston gate is easier to access being in a flat residential area, rather than the top of Richmond Hill. It's also much more affordable. £2m would get you a beautiful place by either the river or the park.

State primaries are largely outstanding.

On the river;

Albany Park Road, Kingston upon Thames KT2
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-81203867.html

Or this, by the park;

Crescent Road, Kingston upon Thames, KT2
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-69656674.html

Hi OP. Have you thought about Streatham? It has changed a lot in recent years (before anyone reacts with horror!). Streatham Common + Norwood Grove is huge and Tooting Bec Common also nearby, the houses are bigger and more spaced out than between the commons and much of Dulwich so feels more spacious, it has a really strong community feel (e.g. check out Streatham Mum’s Network on Feb) but isn’t red-trouser-villagey and has a bit of an edge. Increasingly creative - live music venue, new small theatre, and a local group campaigning to turn the massive Art Deco theatre into an Arts Centre. Loads of stuff for kids and families and easy to get out in the countryside. Less than 30mins to the city on Thameslink.

Its where I am, so am biased, but I genuinely wouldn’t choose to move to Richmond/Barnes/Wimbledon over where we are. You could get a whopping house like this, for example - 2 mins from the Common

Hopton Road, Streatham
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62760843.html

I agree with comments on Wanstead. I have lived in Surrey (grew up in Epsom and Oxted, and lived for a while in Banstead), Kew and Central London. I now live in Walthamstow and spend much of my time in Wanstead (which is v near by) and South Woodford - we're saving up to move to Wanstead - it's great. I always thought I'd move back to Surrey once I had kids (I especially loved Kew), but now that I do, I can't bear the thought of leaving London and Wanstead is IMO perfectly situated for a bit of green (Epping forest, Wanstead Park) and a bit of city.

With your budget, you could definitely get a good mix of the 'buzzy' London life while also having access to quiet, green space. Richmond defintely sounds like one area that would suit you well, what about Hampstead? It could be a great area to raise a family.

Maybe give this tool a try. You can place a higher priority on access to schools, green space, and buzzy high streets and see what comes up within your budget and DH's commute. You might find it helpful!

Thanks everyone who has taken the time to reply. I think I am a bit similar to the other OP who is posting about not being able to find the right place for her and her family in that I think I would like to be out of London now we have kids but in a place that has character, so Folkestone, Faversham, Lewes, Woodbridge, Hastings, Rye - places like that really appeal to me but they don't work because they are all too far for a daily commute and a husband that works all the time! Towns that are not too big, have community feel, a bit arty.

We had a chat and we both agree that we don't want that life where I live far out and DH lives in London and never sees us. So yes, I've been searching for a place that doesn't exist really - somewhere within an hour door to door commute that is a bit like any of the above places! And not too far from my parents. I don't want to be anymore than 2hr from them.

Which leaves us in the commuter belt or back in London. All the villagey London bits sound good on paper - Barnes I love, but I agree I'm not it would actually suit me that well, plus the plane noise I think is a no and wrong side for my parents, but actually I think Barnes would be better for us than Richmond proper as it's feels very green and less busy and Richmond is easy to access there anyway. I think we've now ruled out Richmond/Kew etc as wrong side for parents/commute/extremely expensive/plane noise, though the schools seem very good and on paper it would be the best place in London to raise kids I think, safe, green, river, parks etc.

Interested in Chiswick though I think it also may feel too busy now with the big roads cutting through. And not that easy to get up to East Anglia (though easier than Richmond).

Going to look back at around Crouch End, Highgate, Tufnell Park way and up to Winchmore Hill too to see how I feel further out north. Definitely going to revisit Wanstead for east suburbs/access to parents/good greenery and Dulwich as another London village.

What we may end up doing I suspect is staying put, getting a tiny flat in central London, I go up a bit more for work/weekends to see friends and I start trying to put down roots, find some like-minded mates and enjoy the greenery and peace around here.

Don't forget Blackheath!

The bolt hole in central London and the main home in the countryside is our plan for retirement :) It sounds like it could be a nice lifestyle for your family. It'll now be a case of finding the right spot for the London place - it can be a surprising mission too...

I would look at the sunk costs for buying a small flat - SDLT for second home, legal fees etc and then the annual sunk costs service charge (often £6k/year!), council tax, utility bills etc ...... and spend that on a great hotel instead! It’s the same as second home issue - when kids have weekend sport / social commitments - even in primary - they don’t want to go away for the weekend. Also would taking your children to stay in a small flat every weekend be too much bother?