Can LL enter flat without permission?

[wildsummerdreams]

Hi all, our landlord wants to enter the flat for a routine safety inspection, but I'm away travelling and don't want her to be in the flat without us there. I've asked her to rearrange the visit but she's being quite persistent.

I feel this is an invasion of our privacy. Would it be breach of contract if she enters the flat without our permission?

Common law doesn’t overrule that statute (or any other) I am afraid.

No. They coexist. Reasonable behaviour between both landlord and tenant should be to find a mutually-acceptable way to access.

But entering against a tenant's wishes is trespass. This is a more serious violation than denying access. If tenants deny access, you can seek an injunction or pursue other legal measures, but you still can't just walk in. You make scathing remarks about 'legal blogs', but the reason this issue is constantly being discussed on such blogs (and on very legitimate landlord-oriented resource sites and legal firms, most of them intended to support landlords) is because it's difficult.

There's probably no point saying this, is there? It's like arguing with Lionel Hutz:

You can't just quote that statute as proof that...
But look! The statute!
I know, it's great, but when it conflicts with...
Did you see the statute?
You need to look more widely at...
The statute! I know! Case closed!

obachan The reason for the blogs is more about reasonabless of access. So you can't as a LL demand access to perform an inspection not required by law but you can do if it's an inspection required for legislation purposes.

There are a lot of agents who demand inspections every six months because they charge the LL a fee for these and it gives the agent the opportunity to fix things which they add their fee to making more money from the LL. I don't use an agent because they are absolutely awful and benefit no one.

When I'm doing the HMO inspection I really don't mind what state the property is in. If I see something obvious like a tear in the carpet I'll ask the tenant about it and set up the section of carpet to be replaced, same day if it's a HMO inspection otherwise you will fail.

What gives you the right to say that. And claim to be a normal human being that understands both common courtesy and the law

I have every right. Wannabealandlord admits to bullying her tenants by threatening to evict them if they won't let her access their homes when she is not there, illegal.
She calls them "uppity".

So you can't as a LL demand access to perform an inspection not required by law but you can do if it's an inspection required for legislation purposes

Still wrong! Are you going for a medal here?

I have a lovely landlord, I think she's ace and I haven't a bad word to say about her.
I have had dreadful landlords, the type who thought the law came a very distant second to their whims and wishes.
It's always frightening to read posts by landlords on here who really don't get it.

tawny So please share how I'm supposed to get inspections performed when the contractor is only available at times when the tenant says it's not ok to visit? What I issue a section 21 notice to evict them?

If any tenant denied me access to perform mandatory inspections yes I wouldn't be renewing their lease and if provoked further I would definelty consider eviction. I'm not willing to risk my reputation with the council with a tenant who thinks they know the law better than the council and laws in place to protect them. You do realize that failure to complete HMO inspections can result in jail and/or fines which are more than a years worth of rent?

Obarchan, you’re wrong. A statute which is clear in its terms applies regardless of the common law. I posted the statute already stating clearly that a landlord can enter with 24 hours notice. It’s not trespassing or otherwise unlawful. The statute expressly permits it.

If the statute is clear it’s clear. You can’t say it doesn’t apply cos you read a blog that you didn’t understand. It is case closed I am afraid. That’s how the law works. Parliament would be considered to take the common law into account when they made the statute and overruled it if that’s the effect of the statute.

To be honest I don’t know that the common law did ever prevent landlords entering a property with reasonable notice to do repairs. I would think not. But if it did it’s irrelevant as there is now a statute that expressly permits it.

Please feel free to post a case or any authority that backs up what you are saying. But as you have not so far I can only assume you have none.

Okay - well, there's clearly no point discussing this further with someone who just bleats 'case closed' and repeats themselves, but at least zsazsajuju isn't a landlord.

If anyone (tenant or landlord) is interested in reading up on the issue of landlord access, I'll post a list of useful links of landlord-oriented or neutral sources; these aren't tenants' rights blogs advising the best ways to outwit your landlord. These are sites trying to give landlords themselves the clearest advice about rights of access, especially where a landlord has legal obligations (to repair, gas safety cert etc) and might assume this gives them unproblematic right to access, subject to notice being served.

It's overwhelmingly agreed that this is not the case. Just because failure to gain entry places the landlord in potential legal difficulty (eg gas safety cert expired), it is not considered adequate grounds for them to commit a criminal act (gaining access against the tenant's wishes: trespass, or harassment).

Every site recognises the frustration of this for decent landlords with obstructive tenants, and suggests various legal measures, including injunctions, evictions and prosecution under the antisocial behaviour act.

But none of them say 'let yourself in'. I think the only positive thing anyone has to say about letting yourself in, against tenant's wishes, is that the tenant may not actually take legal action (especially if the tenant is denying access because they're up to something illegal themselves), or that the tenant's appalling/illegal behaviour may be considered a mitigating factor if it does come to court. But saying you might not get prosecuted is not the same as saying there's no grounds for prosecution.

And this is talking about really awful tenants who deny access for vital maintenance and inspections. If you've got an otherwise unproblematic tenant who's just, for example, asking you to reschedule an inspection so they can be present, it's absolutely mad to go against their wishes and let yourself in. Your liability is huge. The grey area is whether you can give them the impression that they have no choice, and get (reluctant) consent, or suggest their requests are making you angry and that their tenancy may not be renewed. Badly done, this could be construed as harassment.

Ultimately, it's up to the landlord to decide whether the inconvenience of doing maintenance or inspections on a more restricted schedule, in accordance to the tenant's wishes, is worse than the very real possibility of legal repercussions if they let themselves in against the tenant's wishes or make the tenant feel harassed. No: tenants who need their tenancy to be renewed may feel unable to complain. But tenants who don't need a renewal may actually be in a position to protect their rights, which is bad news for a landlord who's acted against all prevailing legal advice.

Landlords lobbying for greater access rights due to cost and danger of tenants refusing gas safety checks, at which point the landlord's only current right to access comes from getting an injunction (rather than letting themselves in regardless):

www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/landlord-access-for-gas-safety-39923

'To clarify, always be aware that it’s, in fact, illegal for a landlord or agent to enter a property without agreement from the tenant':

homelet.co.uk/landlord-insurance/tips/your-rights-for-inspecting-or-viewing-a-property-as-a-landlord

'In the same way that you cannot have your cake and eat it – you cannot rent out your property AND retain the right to go into it when you want':

www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2014/09/09/all-about-landlords-rights-to-go-into-their-tenants-property/

'I want to warn you that the reality of the situation is usually depressing, particularly for landlords that are about to learn what the deal is for the first time. I assume almost everyone reading this particular post will looking for a way of entering their property legally. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to do that if you’re not given access by the tenant':

www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/my-tenant-wont-let-me-into-the-property/

'It is the tenant’s right to refuse access if the tenant wishes. If access is refused the landlord cannot enter - this is because the tenant’s right to exclude people from the property overrides the landlord’s right of access if the two are in conflict. However, refusal to let the landlord inspect at all, will put the tenant in breach of the tenancy agreement.'

www.privatehousinginformation.co.uk/site/148.asp

'Some landlords use their keys to gain access and do the [gas safety] inspection anyway, or cut off the gas. However, attractive though these options may appear to be, they are strictly illegal and could make you vulnerable to prosecution or even a civil claim for damages by the tenant':

hamiltonfraser.co.uk/landlord-insurance

'Many landlords will have experienced a tenant denying them access to a property – whether for an inspection, viewings or legal duties. It’s easy to understand the view of ‘It’s my property, I can enter when I want’, but unfortunately that’s just not the case':

And so on.

tawny So please share how I'm supposed to get inspections performed when the contractor is only available at times when the tenant says it's not ok to visit

You use a different contractor, or you evict the tenants and do it then. Its really not hard.

You actually think you are allowed to go into to someone elses home when they have told you that you do not have permission to enter, don't you? You are that deluded.

Okidoki so I'm not a scum LL for kicking out a tenant with a section 21 notice so I can perform a required inspection. Glad we cleared that up.

If they refuse reasonable access, no, of course not.

You are for going into their homes without permission if you were actually a transcontinental landlord

Why the strike out? Quite rude to be so passive aggressive. Can't stand the fact that some people have resources you don't? Have an issue with a mother running her own business successfully, following the laws of the land?

The council won't just allow a section 21 order because it affects their spending. The person becomes homeless which creates a 'crisis' response. All over a LL wanting to follow the law.

I really have no idea why you are so militant about this. You are wrong and are giving tenants false information. I've tried throughout this thread to explain the legislation and issues with following it. I'm afraid you have to give access for mandatory checks. You can't expect for HMO inspections that the LL can find someone else. Often there isn't someone else or it involves hiring multiple people which is even more disruptive and intrusive.

You're not following the laws of the land though. Have you still not got that?
You are wrong. And I don't believe any of your made up story anyway.

Obarchan - when did I say I wasn’t a landlord. I said that I didn’t say I was a landlord. I didn’t say I wasn’t either. Cos I have no intention of putting such things on an internet chat board.

I posted the statute above that landlords can enter to do repairs and assessment of repairs on 24 hours notice above. That’s the legal position in England and I set it out above. You might not agree with it but it’s still the law.

So either post some actual authority that that statute has been repealed or stop talking nonsense.

I've posted multiple examples of how the statute coexists with a covenant of common law, in a way which can create issues for landlords with obstructive tenant,s but which also places complacent landlords, who don't fully grasp the legal situation, at liability of trespass and harassment.

If the statute was the beginning and end of the access question, then prevailing legal advice would be for landlords to let themselves in, against tenants' wishes, in situations considered non-emergency but necessary.

Nobody reputable says that, though, because it isn't true. I'm pretty sure most other people can draw their own conclusions from the resources given. You keep hanging on to that statute.

I posted the statute above that landlords can enter to do repairs and assessment of repairs on 24 hours notice above. That’s the legal position in England and I set it out above. You might not agree with it but it’s still the law

Its not. You don't understand the statute, it doesn't exist in a vaccum. It is categorically NOT the legal position, ask any property lawyer in the land to explain it to you. A LL entering a tenants home without their permission CAN and HAS been guilty of trespass.