Can LL enter flat without permission?

[wildsummerdreams]

Hi all, our landlord wants to enter the flat for a routine safety inspection, but I'm away travelling and don't want her to be in the flat without us there. I've asked her to rearrange the visit but she's being quite persistent.

I feel this is an invasion of our privacy. Would it be breach of contract if she enters the flat without our permission?

Jon My tenants have always been fine with me coming in

Of course they have been, once you let them know that you intend to do it whether they like it or not, and that if they complain you won't renew their lease. People are often "fine" with being treated badly when you give them no choice.

I am not understanding this thread. Greenwich council require HMO licensing for any property with two or more unrelated people. Fines for not licensing are huge, tens of thousands, and both landlord and estate agent are liable. Requirements are also pretty onerus, so visits by people to draw up floor plans, eletricity and gas checks and possibly fire inspections. Failure to carry out some checks, as well as invalidating insurance, is a criminal act

People may live in a very different world to me. If I can find a reliable and competent London plumber or electrician I work to his timetable. At least on jobs than can be scheduled. Hoping that the good relationship will serve me well should I need him in an emergency.

I would have limited patience with a tenant who was unable to understand my constraints. And even less with one wbo held some of the views expressed here. I do my best. These rules were brought in to PROTECT tenants. And the same rules, the associated costs and admin, and the increasingly entitled attitudes of some millennial tenants is causing us to reduce our portfolio. Who loses. Good tenants who then have no alernative but to pay higher rents, or to rent from landlords who ignore licensing and maintenance needs.

(My Greenwich licencing in a well maintained property still required half a dozen visits by different people. And would have been worse if electrics had not been pretty recent so just off current regs and I had not had the right combination of fire and smoke alarms and a full set of fire doors. My lovely shift working tenants were brilliant, despite being woken on a couple of occassions. In return I did not even consider asking for an increase when the contract was renewed.)

@Jon66

"S11 of the landlord and Tenant Act 1988 states that you can enter the property with the giving of 24 hours notice"

Would you be so kind as to provide what you think is the wording of that section?

I can't see what you claim in
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/26/contents

four The OP is questioning their LLs right to enter to perform a manditory inspection for HMO properties. For that reason yes the LL doesn't have to change the inspection to suit the tenant. They need to give at least 24 hours notice, which they have done.

What the OP can do is check with the council that their home is a HMO and that the inspector hired to do the job is certified to do so. If they are certified they will have insurance so any issues with their home are covered under that insurance.

Yes, you don't understand that they are YOUR CONTRAINTS to deal with and not your tenants.
Most tenants are perfectly reasonable and accomodating, all you usually have to do is treat them with respect and ask them nicely to accomodate YOUR needs, without threats or intimidation and while making it clear you understand they have every right to be present or not to do it if they choose not to.

For that reason yes the LL doesn't have to change the inspection to suit the tenant. They need to give at least 24 hours notice, which they have done

you are 100% wrong and are breaking the law by doing this.

However in the 1985 act, I see a section 11 that does not say what you claim.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/11

'll and t act 1985 s11 oops

Jon: then you're misinformed, and placing yourself at risk.

If you give notice to enter and the tenants consent, fine.

If you give notice to enter, and the tenants don't reply... questionable. If they've always previously agreed, you may have grounds that this suggests implied permission to enter (especially if it's in the contract they signed, which may demonstrate assent even though it's not enforceable), but it's not set in stone and most decent landlords would make alternative attempts to contact the tenant. The tenants can't be one missed email/letter/voicemail from you entering the property without their knowledge or consent.

If you give notice to enter, and the tenant says: not on that day, or not unless I can be there, then you can't enter and need to find a compromise. To just overrule the tenant's stated wishes would be very unwise, even for a gas safety check. Again: laws and covenants can contradict each other (in this case you're legally obliged to do the gas safety check, but legally unable to force access), so it's about finding a workable solution.

If you give notice to enter and the clients continually refuse or obstruct, you need to take further legal steps. This still doesn't mean you can just let yourself in. Maybe, if it came to court, you wouldn't be prosecuted, but that's not a given.

Where there are contradictory covenants, you can't just pick the one which suits you. You have to see how the law is interpreted; currently, it's considered that entering against a tenant's wishes is a serious mistake, and that the covenant you quoted is not reasonable defense in a non-emergency situation. Your opinion that nobody would uphold a civil complaint about you entering without permission, because it's for a gas safety check, does not fully reflect the legal reality. The HSE gives a suggested course of action for uncooperative tenants - but it doesn't say hey, they're being silly, of course you can let yourself in.

Yes - tenants who won't allow gas inspections at all are being very difficult and acting against their own interests. If all else fails, a landlord could take legal measures to get access (an injunction, I think? or a warrant of entry, if it's a council property), or terminate the contract at the soonest legal point, or sue the client for damages resulting from lack of access. All liability for gas-related injuries, even death, would arguably lie with the tenant, if the landlord can prove they've taken all possible reasonable steps to inform the tenant of how vital the gas safety inspection is, and repeatedly tried to find an acceptable course of access, and probably co-opted neutral third party help (the gas company?) to tell the client this really is vital.

But none of that means the landlord can just enter, even if they think the tenant's being ridiculous/mad/difficult. Your opinion on their behaviour has no bearing on the legal situation. If you just google 'landlord access for gas safety check' you'll see so many landlord-oriented sites and legal blogs describing how complicated and frustrating this situation can be when a landlord has a completely uncommunicative or hostile tenant.

A tenant who will permit access under certain conditions is not uncommunicative or hostile, however irritating you find them.

(Apologies for the long post, but access is complicated and there's no way I can say either 'yeah, landlords can give notice and go ahead, no problem!' or 'no, tell your landlord to bugger off, end of!'.)

Of course not all landlords are scummy parasites but enough are and that is the problem. There is a toxic combination going on here of exploitative lettings agents, amateur landlords and too little social housing. Fortunately landlords are now being more heavily regulated and taxed (and by a Tory government at that!) I would not be at all surprised if this taxation and regulation increased. Landlords are in for a shock, the general public do not like or support them and while this sucks for good ones they really have dug their own grave.

I'll rely on s11 (6) thanks. I've done hundreds of hearings on housing law and think I have a fair idea of how djs reason in these circumstances. In reality I've never had a problem with a tenant being awkward about entering because they are nice, reasonable people and know I want happy tenants which means carrying out maintenance when and where necessary to ensure they remain happy. If a tenant were awkward about maintenance issues I'm afraid I don't have enough time to mess around. They would be served a s21 at the earliest opportunity so i can get tenants who want to live in a nice property. There are professional tenants and professional landlords. There are bad landlords and bad tenants. For the people who call landlords scum. That says more about you than anything.

" For the people who call landlords scum. That says more about you than anything."

no it doesnt, it is in reference to my experience of private landlords, including the one i am dealing with right now. NO offence.

Kamma89 I think if landlords withdraw from the market there will be an even greater pressure on housing than there already is. What we really need is not more legislation but enforcement of the laws and regulations that are already in place. It is all in the legislation but unfortunately it has fallen mostly to local authorities to enforce. They are under financial pressure and either choose not to prioritise enforcement or don't have the resources to do so. Reduced legal aid for housing issues has also meant lack of enforcement because there isn't pressure on bad landlords through tenants enforcing their rights. These are the wider issues needing addressing. Alongside the joke of 'affordable rents' and lack of council or housing association building homes to rent. All issues which successive governments over the past 50 years have failed to address. These are the issues you should be addressing and expending effort on, not a few good landlords on here who care.

and if you read my posts about him Jon, you will agreee. I am sure you are not a slum landlord.

I'm surprised your LL even has a key OP. If you have contents insurance, take a good look at the section concerning key holders. It is very possible that a relative stranger (LL or Letting agent) having a key to your property may very well invalidate your insurance completely.

Providing you change your locks back to the originals when you leave - or if the LL is happy with new locks, give the keys to the LL when you go, you really should be getting new locks in every property you move in to.
I made the mistake of not changing them once and a previous tenant's friend walked straight in. Had I not been home at the time then anything could have happened.

A LL does not need a key for emergency access, the LL needs a locksmith. If it's not important enough to get a locksmith (or emergency services) in, it's not that much of an emergency.

Smeaton you make sweeping statements. The police can enter a property without a warrant or to make an arrest. They do it every day. It's called having reason to believe a crime is in progress or having concern for a persons welfare. There is so much crap on here it's unbelievable. You will be pleased to know I am retiring and shall leave you to your ignorance.

Slievenamon. I understand completely. You dont survive as a landlord for long without being able to work contructively with people, both tenants and workmen.

If my tenants decide that they are not worried about my constraints and are not prepared to me me half way, then easy. Life is short. I neither want a criminal conviction nor a massive fine. I alway do my best. If that is not good enough for a tenant, then I dont renew. Simples.

There are an increasing number of issues where the landlord is caught in the middle. Nationality checks, resposibility for the behaviour of tenants under some licensing regimes etc. Add in new propsals like Corbyns idea that all tenants should be lowed to keep pets, in an environment where capital growth is stagnant/falling and interest rates rising and the rental market is likely to to become even more adverse for tenants.

I suspect that wont be a problem for you. As you will still able to blame 'greedy landlords'.

Okay. Pick out the legal bits you like, and disregard the rest - that's your call. And I doubt you'll have problems while you have

a) tenants who are unaware of their rights
b) tenants who are aware of their rights but too worried about eviction or non-renewal to voice them (and I'm sure this represents a good proportion of the 'perfectly happy tenants' landlords with questionable grasp of tenants' rights always seem to boast.)
c) tenants who just don't mind about your cursory notice given/access taken stance.

But I think the fact that house prices are forcing people into renting for longer and longer, combined with the internet giving a wider understanding of tenants' rights, means that eventually you'll come up against a tenant who doesn't put up with this. If you enter the property against their wishes, you'll be liable for criminal proceedings; if you persistently pressure them to accept visits on your own terms and misrepresent the legal situation, this may be construed as intimidation or harassment. All your opinions about tenants being ridiculous or difficult or silly have no weight on the legal reality.

Legend. Cut off your nose to spite your face?

No one is making much money from renting property at the moment. Locksmiths cost money. I doubt if either block management or buildings insurance would be impressed if i were unable to enter a property quickly in the event or a gas or water leak. Not presumably would tenants when they returned to a damaged flat/possessions.

And...I think about the times tenants have locked themselves out and turned to me for help.

This thread is weird. Like Jon I am pleased that I have nice and reasonable tenants.

My
Contract says I can’t be drunk in the property 😂

I've been doing this for over 15 years at this point. We must comply with the laws in place to protect tenants.

You've been a landlord for 15 years and you still don't understand that if you request to enter a tenant's property (or send your contractor) and the tenant says no, then in almost all circumstances you can't just enter anyway?

I'm not requesting. I'm giving notice. It's not a discussion but a legal requirement.

Yes, you don't understand.

Yes I'm giving notice that I am entering with a contractor to perform a necessary inspection to comply with legislation requiring LLs to perform this work to maintain the home as safe.

I'm not entering to check on the dishes or if my tenants are drunk. I really do not care if my tenants are drunk. None of my business. What is my business is that the HMO certifications are completed before the required deadline.