Seller won't do a pre-exchange visit

[MidnightDexy]

I don't know what to do. Sorry this is long.

First viewed house in Sept (twice). First was a cursory run through and second viewing we spent a long time - 45 minutes - taking measurements and so on. Our offer was finally accepted mid-October after a bit of negotiation and a complicated back story (she originally went with another buyer but eventually ditched them because they couldn't get their finances in order and she feared "we'd still be here in March").

We were delighted, instructed solicitor immediately, got mortgage offer and instructed valuation and booked surveyor. Did everything super fast to prove we weren't time-wasters.

Then she stalled. Took weeks (6, I think) to instruct a solicitor. She obviously hadn't paid the money on account because it then took her solicitor ages to finally get in touch with our solicitor.

The Property Information Form came back with lots of incomplete or missing answers, and lots of documentation "to follow". Our solicitor is excellent and has replied to emails same day or next, constantly kept pushing the outstanding enquiries and outstanding documents. Her solicitor has been appalling but we thought we were slowly getting there. The list of incomplete information is dwindling and we're now down to just 4/5 points.

One outstanding question is "can you confirm the property is in the same condition as when the buyers viewed it in September". The other is what arrangements her solicitors will make to deal with the shortfall in the amount needed to redeem mortgage charge on completion (sale proceeds will leave a shortfall). I didn't think there was anything odd about the first question, and the second (I am told) is essential.

We asked to have a final, pre-exchange visit (in particular to take a look at the drains at the rear, as we plan to do an extension). Estate Agent called with "bad news". Apparently the seller won't let us visit again, and won't talk on the phone. She's "offended" and "angry" at the questions we are asking.

Estate Agent told her she'd got the wrong end of the stick and that there was nothing personal behind the questions, they're just standard questions solicitors have to ask, but she's now got the hump in a serious way.

EA tells us she asked seller if she is trying to pull out, or no longer wants to sell to us, but seller (allegedly) promised that's not the case, she is just sick of us "hounding" her.

Has anyone had this? Any advice on how to handle this? I am heartbroken because if this house doesn't go through we'll be lumped with the new additional 3% SDLT and have to face the fact that the market has moved since our offer was accepted.

But why? Why does it have to happen before exchange, why can't it be done afterwards?

From exchange you can't back out of buying without serious financial consequences, and the risk passes to you as buyer.

If you're planning an extension and the drain access is in the wrong place it can add serious costs to your project, so better to check before exchange if possible, rather than after when you are totally committed.

Drains are a red herring though, probably, if the negative equity thing isn't sorted.

Going on my own experience it was because the buyers had restrictions on them financially and insurance had to be sorted via a certain company (if I remember correctly) but it was left to the last minute.

I know that essentialhummus. So I am asking op - why does she want to look at the drains just before exchange? Is the reason to check on their condition or position? If either of those not right will it not be possible to do their extension? If so, would they use that as a reason to back out of the sale or try and negotiate a last-minute reduction in price? If so, why was this "looking at the drains" not done months before?

You can see the sellers thinking here (on this particular issue anyway).

Hi

Yes, as Hummus said we need to know now - and not after exchange - because we'd be tied in to sale from exchange.

The drains: the standard Property Info Form (that sellers use) asks various questions about drainage. Seller left most of them blank or said 'did not know'. We got a Thames Water search which confirms the drain is 'unidentified' i.e. TW can't (or rather, won't) confirm if it is public or private. Believe it or not, TW refuse to come and carry out an inspection unless you are having issues with your drains...and it's not our house yet, so we are stuck.

There are pros and cons to it being public, and pros and cons to it being private, but basically we are buying the house with a view to a rear extension and so we need to see if there are any manhole covers (if so, that seriously limits extension possibilities). We just want to go and look around the garden. Seller has taken hump, and is refusing (as above).

The Property Information Form came back in early December and our solicitor has been asking for clarifications/outstanding drainage points ever since. The suggestion of a pre-exchange look around house and garden has been raised recently (this week) but only because a) seller is refusing to help us out and give answers (she says she "doesn't know" if there are any manhole covers in the garden) and b) because we genuinely are near exchange.

:(

at a minimum you are spending £100k and I guess a lot more. if this daft woman wants to sell, she needs to grow up. Do NOT exchange until she lets you have a look.

you aren't asking to inspect her underwear drawer!

I would:

Grit your teeth.

Trot down to Interflora.

Send her a bouquet of flowers with a note apologising for any stress and saying that you are really looking forward to living in the house as you can see that it has been so well looked after.

Wait 7 days.

Ask if someone else - the estate agent perhaps? someone neutral - can go around to ascertain the position of the drain.

Take the strategic view, even if it means loosing a little face. The way that house prices are going these days it is always, always better to take the long view and get that transaction completed, rather than beginning again with a new property.

Ok, I understand now. So it could be a deal breaker? This is why she is stalling, I guess. Very frustrating all round.

You should put a rocket up the two estate agents, really. They are the ones with an enormous vested interest in the sale going through. It's no skin off your solicitors nose if you pull out, they still get paid.

When we brought our first house the sellers refused us visiting (we had seen it once I in the July for 10-15 mins) because it wasn't appropriate.

There was nothing we could do so we simply didn't visit. She was a total bitch and so I would bin all there post even though I knew the forwarding address including a parking fine (they didn't bother to notify the DVLA they had moved so it's their fault) which now means he has a ccj against his name but is oblivious. Turns out they were hiding horrendous mould and burns to the kitchen counter....

I am completely prepared to lose face, that doesn't bother me.

I had already planned to write a note saying:

"Dear X

I wanted to say that I am so sorry if the questions coming through the solicitors have caused offence - I am mortified to think we've upset you and please be assured that was not our intention.

For the solicitors this is a routine business transaction but please be assured we are still very much committed to proceeding with the sale. We are so looking forward to living in your house because it is clear it has been cared for.

I hope we can work together to get this over the line!

All the best,

Dexy"

Any comments / additions?

No, you really shouldn't. The seller needs careful handling, that's clear, and not everyone understands the complexities of the property buying/selling process. But your estate agent needs to handle this, patiently but assertively. This is what they earn their fees from! It's not just a question of taking a few photos and sticking them up on a website.

On the Estate Agent front: we don't have an agent, it's her EA.

They keep calling me saying "oh this is so frustrating for you, we've told her she's being silly and taking routine things personally" but I know they're then picking up the phone to her and saying "oh these buyers really are fuss pots, I've never seen such pedantry".

I don't think I can trust them much but I'm obviously making soothing noises and saying how much we still want it to work out.

Bibbitybobbityyhat - You don't think I should write?

don't write, don't send flowers. This is a business transaction and she's being a silly arse. Or she is hiding something.

house transactions are stressful. She can suck it up.

tell the agent what you want and let them deal with it, they get paid for it. Be prepared to walk.

Call the agents, tell them you need them to call her and ask why she isn't responding to requests for information from her solicitor.........

Tell the agent that you are seriously considering your position here and that you want a completion date agreed asap

The woman, without a shadow of a doubt is stalling.

Also email yours and her solicitor and demand progress (in a nice way) or else you are believing this sale cannot complete due to the sellers lack of willingness, tell them it is fine but you actually need to know the answer!

I have to admit I refused a visit from our buyer the day before exchange. It was purely because the way the agent worded her request made me think that she had cold feet and was thinking of pulling out.

I think perhaps that psychologically people get tied up in aspects of the property when really they are having second thoughts. I've done it myself, got obsessed about a flat roof extension ask a zillion questions and pull out just because it didn't feel right. I didn't want that done to me .

Sorry, I didn't realise you aren't in a chain. But, no, I don't think you should write.

Tbh, though, I don't think a "pre-exchange visit" is a common thing. It's not really any different to a third viewing if anything happens on it that will make you change your mind about the sale.

I understand she is being difficult, I really do.

It is so stressful isn't it.

When we were moving from a two bed terrace to a five bedroom victorian villa I was beyone excited and we had several visits with various people who were going to carry out work for us - arranged privately with the seller - until I got a call from the EA to say she was sick to death of me and my bloody plans for the house and no we could not go round again.

In my exxcitement I had completely overlooked the fact that they were having to downsize because of financial difficulties and were finding it hard.

Stick to your guns. You are in the prime position.

QuiteLikely: we were making such bad progress dealing with her solicitor that since New Year we have enlisted the Estate Agent's help to summarise the outstanding questions (I had no faith her solicitor was on track of what she'd been asked / answered - honestly you can't imagine how bad this solicitor was). That way we knew the seller was at least being asked the questions.

The EA has another house on the same street listed that - coincidentally - just came on the market yesterday. We've asked to go and view and have made it clear we're desperate for the existing sale to go through but "with a heavy heart" we're exploring plan B.

We had no intention of going to view it (didn't want to rock boat with EA / seller) but when we got the "news" yesterday we thought: fuck it. We have to be firm but fair.

Our solicitor has demanded progress so many times now and today is not the day to rock the boat. The solicitors winding each other up is what's got us into this mess. I can vouch for the fact that all our solicitor has done is email and follow up on outstanding requests "Dear X thank you for your letter of 20 Jan. I am still waiting to hear from you on A, B and C and look forward to hearing from you, regards".

But are you still committed to the sale. What if the manholes and drains would prevent you extending?

I can see that the vendor is being unhelpful but these are things you should have found out before now.

Thanks Exit_Bear that's a helpful perspective and I keep forgetting that angle. Good for another reminder.

As I said we've been round twice (in September), but not since, nor have we asked for a visit. Our solicitor always recommends a pre-exchange visit (strongly, it seems) and although I would never assume a buyer would deliberately trash the place but if you've nothing to hide...

(Starfishmummy no - not committed yet. We asked all these questions at the earliest opportunity (and I mean the next working day) and she's refused to answer).

I don't understand what concern it is of yours where the shortfall is coming from.
Unless I'm mistaken that has nothing to do with you as it has no bearing on your mortgage. It should be done via solicitors, you needn't know her personal situation tbh.
I think if you'd seen our house twice I'd be refusing further visits too, as each time it's a big tidy up etc.
If you planned to do an extension why didn't you look at the drains last time you went?

NewLife: we did look as best we could but this was in September, before our offer had been accepted and before we got the results of the Thames Water search, which revealed the drain was unidentified. If it's a private manhole, then it is fine. If it's a public manhole it's not fine and you can't build over it. If there's definitely no manhole at all (and seller says she doesn't know) it's probably not an issue.

We are not asking for her personal situation - nobody is asking how much the shortfall is or how she got into debt. It is simply that our solicitor, who acts for our lender (as is standard) needs to be confident that her solicitors hold the money necessary to redeem the mortgage on completion so that our mortgage can be registered with clear title.

A bank don't just lift the charge against the property because the person who owes them money doesn't live there anymore. It's the bank's house until they've been paid back.

It's not correct to say it has no bearing on our mortgage - we could exchange and pay a 10% deposit only to find, on completion day, that her mortgage has only been partially discharged, our mortgage lender won't release the funds, and we're in no mans land, literally waiting in a removal van on the street outside, praying that her solicitor will return the desposit. I don't think you'd be willing to just wait and see what happens on completion either.