New detached house not so detached

[Gemmawashere]

Hello - I have been reading many a useful topic on here for ages and am now hoping somebody can help with my issue regarding boundaries etc.

We are about to sign for a new house - a persimmon detached house that was already built with wall and roof and is just having the insides finished.

The neighbours to each side have already moved in - perhaps 1 month ago max.

This is our first house so not very experienced with how it all goes - anyway, the first thing was - which we stupidly didnt realise, the house is detached but we don't have access to one of side of our house - I thought it was a bit strange that, whats the point in having a detached? anyway, it appears this is quite normal so no real issues. The wall that we can't have access to forms the boundary, and on further inspection our neighbour has bolted his gate to this wall, he has also bolted his back garden fence to this wall and also there is a plank of wood bolted to my house rear wall! (does that make sense) which helps support his fence, and then to make matters worse the 5 wall posts are completely into our garden and over the boundary so that his fence is nice and flush with our wall! and then the cheeky guy has put flags down which go under his fence and a couple of inches past the edge of our house and into our garden!

So then to the other side - the other neighbour, they have built a supporting wall around there garden so that they can have it flattened (the gardens have an incline) which is a good idea, she has built this wall on the boundary line so I suppose half of it is into our garden - not the end of the world and I dont think this is a relationship breaker, but then the fence built on top of the wall has its 4 or 5 posts into our garden and they are secured into concrete!

I wanted to get the garden flattened - got a friend round, he said it couldn't really be done as next doors fence posts would end up not in the ground - would have to build another supporting wall way into our garden (am aware we need to build a supporting wall anyway) when really I should be able to build right up to the boundary line (which technically I can't build right up to the line as her wall is half over anyway - and thats if we got the posts removed!)

Sounds straight forward - so I spoke to the rude sales office, they inform me that they gave permission to the neighbours for all this to be done whilst they were still the 'owners' of the house! and we can't do anything about it - other than not sign for the house (next week), but it really is our dream home :(

Has anybody any ideas?

Thanks
Gemma
(sorry its so long)

"are they really bad neighbours? they haven't even met us so it can't be personal can it?"

TBH they probably don't like Persimmon any more than you do and think they have "got one over on Persimmon" by doing what they have done. And they think that whoever buys the house would not have bought it if they didn't think it was OK. And if you do buy it now you will be saying it is OK.

Pull out. There will be plenty of other houses. Developers are taking the mickey in marketing this as a detached when it clearly isn't! You'll get more space/garden if you view older houses. Nothing against new builds - I have owned 2 in the past but new build plots have become hugely smaller in the last decade. You haven't exchanged so pull out! Persimmon will find another sucker.

Read some of the thread- pull out. really it's not going to be your" dream home". Builders rip you off.

However on the " it's not a detached house if you can't walk round it" point.... ours is 1930s detached. on one side the boundary is the side of the house. Next doors access passage abuts on out wall. If we wanted to re point we'd have to stand in their access way to do it. Same the other side- our shed isn't attached to their wall but is against it and the front fence attached to the side of their house (so when the sky dish went up we had the engineer in our garden, and the dish technically in " our airspace" ). We have nice neighbours, it's fine. Biut if they werent....

You never know, the builders might have said they could do this to try and ingratiate themselves with the new owners and they might be naïve enough not to think it is a problem or not allowed.

Have you looked at Land registry. This will tell you exactly what you are buying. If it is different to what you signed for then obviously the developer is selling a different product than the one you signed for and as such you need to get this sorted, either by pulling out or demanding compensation from developer for giving your garden away after they had sold it to you.

Definitely get an independent solicitor to look into it.

You have not exchanged contracts yet, so you would be buying the house as it is with the fences, walls, flagstones etc. exactly where they are and there will be nothing you can do about it once you exchange. Before you exchange you have the threat of pulling out to put pressure on the seller to force the neighbours to make the alterations but otherwise what you see is what you get.

If you do decide to pull put, you should demand back your deposit, surveyors fees etc. because it is due to their poor conduct!

great big warning flags here. As others have said, change solicitor immediately.

If you do still decide to go ahead however, negotiate a whacking discount. They really won't want you to pull out and although they will be reluctant you do have the upper hand here. Go for 20k at least.

I would think twice though. Buyers are in a strong position and there is always another 'dream house' not very far away....

A land registry search only gives a basic outline of the property and land, it's not precise so can be off, just to warn you. It's really not a good idea to go by this.

I would be making the point that the property you put the deposit on is not the property that you are now being offered. I've seen side elevations as boundaries - but I wouldn't want anything fixed to it directly - they should have put in a fence post with a slight gap between your house and the post and put the gate on that. The wood attaching the fence to the back of your house - that is completely out of the question. The fence posts inside the boundary line - similarly. The tradition is that you put the fence posts on your side of the fence and put the good side to the neighbour - so you'll probably end up responsible for the upkeep of the fence too (after the children have knocked it down iwth their football playing).

Otherside - wall is probably OK, but fence posts shouldn't be in your garden, they could have used carriage bolts and fixed the fence to the top of the wall like that.

Also, if it's your 'dream house' you will almost certainly find that they're building the same model on another development nearby. You really don't need to hold out for this particular one.

Other developments may have this house type without gardens on a slope. Or it may be the cheapest house type on that development, so the whole estate will have been upgraded in various ways. Developers determine a basic spec on a site-specific basis and it can really vary a lot depending on what they're marketing a development as.

It isn't necessarily a disaster, even if it feels like it right now. Buying a house is such a fraught and emotional experience, but it will all work out in the end (just perhaps not in ways you'd imagined at the start).

It's not correct that you would be buying the house 'as is'.

You are buying what's on the title deeds.

There are plenty of examples on the garden law website where people have reclaimed grabbed land even when it's done before a purchase.

Persimmon should have erected suitable fencing/boundary walls as part of the house build, I can't understand why they didn't as it would be cheaper and easier have done it then. Why are they selling properties with no fencing between the gardens? The last new build I had the fences were erected by the developers, all posts were on the boundary line between the properties and they used the type of fencing that gave both sides the 'nice' side. It was clearly detailed as to which house was responsible for which fence.

I still can't get over the neighbour attaching a plank of wood to the rear wall of your house to support his fence. He has no right to attach anything to a wall of a property he doesn't own. The house is detached, no party walls, what the hell does he think he's doing?

Swing this round the other way, person X buys new build house, he/she wants to put a fence up, they ask for permission from house builders who grant it.

So they pay out money for the fence, gate and patio and enjoy their new home.

Only for some time later to be told by the buyer of the house next door that they have to remove it all. No sorry, I wouldn't be happy.

To me I wouldn't play hard ball with Persimmon I would simply pull out. The houses are clearly a bit too close together so that a mere fence post causes issues.

I have lived in new builds but never when there is just a 1m path between properties.

I'd pull out. Given the situation the house is overpriced now, and as a newbuild it will, as others have said, be identikit. You're buying something - a detached house with improvable garden - that no longer exists.

Contented the neighbours are in the wrong. Why are you implying they will be pissed off if they have to make good when they shouldn't have done it in the first place?

Contented no problem with the neighbours putting up fences, but they have no right to attach a piece of wood to yhe rear wall of a neighbours detached property in order to support their fence, permission from builders to erect a fence or not. Also, neither neighbour has the right to put fence posts on land not owned by them, something Persimmon are well aware of so irrespective of them giving the neighbours permission they should have made clear what they are allowed to do because as it stands the neighbours have de-valued a house Persimmon are selling.

The neighbours chanced their luck and if they are unhappy if told to remove things from the OP's property it's just tough. I don't for one minute think either neighbour didn't know that what they were doing wasn't right, permission from Persimmon or no.

Hope you get it sorted out OP

Update op?

I took the point of contented's post to be that the neighbours would be annoyed at having to take down fences and put right and therefore might be resentful towards the OP making for frosty relations.

I'm sure they would be annoyed at being made to take down fences. But what made them think it would be OK to attach stuff to the detached house next door?

Thanks for all the replies.
We had a meeting today with the building manager - it was very funny.....

It transpires that it was in fact nothing to do with the neighbours - they wanted fences building in there back garden and they simply paid persimmon to do it, they didn't give any direction etc they just asked for fences. Obviously when the sales team read the file when we complained it did read as 'permission' been given to build the fence so I will let the sales team off - they weren't fibbing, just failed to tell the entire story.

so....

He basically said that 'yes' the neighbours fence posts are completely into our land, but this is common practice. He then said that if 'they' (meaning persimmon) were wrong then every single house he has built up and down the country is wrong......

He said the gate being bolted to our wall - is common practice, and that our neighbour had asked for a gate and paid for it and that his builders had then installed it - using our wall for one side.

He said that the fence being bolted to our house is common practice, the neighbours paid for a fence and his builders installed it - bolting it to our wall.

I rang the solicitor again - she said that she can't do anything at the minute because persimmon still own the land - so she can't act on my behalf as I haven't signed for it - SO, I said fine I will sign for it and then you can do something - SHE SAID - no, then you will have bought it as seen.... WTF?

In regards to the other side of the house - he said yes that the neighbours fence posts were in out land - common practice and if its wrong then every house in the country is wrong.

He said - you both have 1 metre each, we have installed her fence so now you both have 910mm each.....whats the problem?

I said - its our neighbours fence! why am I losing land for our neighbours fence??? - its common practice he replies.

I argued (sorry, my husband argued) that when we put our fence up we will have even less - say 700/800mm simply because they have built into our land (by the way, the 910mm measure is from the actual fence - not the posts which are obviously 'how ever many' mm's into our 910mm!

I am told that we are getting a fence for free - I see that point, however my husband pointed out that if the neighbours wanted they could demand we don't touch said fence - don't paint it, don't hang baskets off it etc and even though they may agree now (we have no idea) they could change there mind in years to come.

My husband said about 'adverse possession' the neighbours would 'gain' the land as there own after 12 years as there fence is in that land - don't know what your on about - was his reply.

So, we have contacted another solicitor today - we are waiting for a cost estimate for them to look into it.

Apologies if I'm being dim but if there's a fence between your garden and the next door neighbours why would you need to put your own fence up?

Technically - you wouldn't, but the owner of the fence is well within rights to not allow you to touch it - so no hanging baskets, no creepers growing up and not the 'colour' you want - he could have our side painted pink! and besides - we have the'rough' side, we may want to erect our own so that we also have the smooth side (young kids, looks better etc)

He may give permission now - to keep us sweet, and change his mind in years to come, or even as soon as we have signed the contracts - or new owners say no further down the line, by that time he will have claimed our land and we will have to erect a fence in our choice of colour etc - losing more land because we didn't fight to have the original fence put in the right position

Blimey, they were talking a load of bollox. It is most definitely not common practise for one neighbour to erect a fence on their neighbour land

Did you post on the garden law website linked to earlier in the thread? There are some really knowledgable posters on it.