New detached house not so detached

[Gemmawashere]

Hello - I have been reading many a useful topic on here for ages and am now hoping somebody can help with my issue regarding boundaries etc.

We are about to sign for a new house - a persimmon detached house that was already built with wall and roof and is just having the insides finished.

The neighbours to each side have already moved in - perhaps 1 month ago max.

This is our first house so not very experienced with how it all goes - anyway, the first thing was - which we stupidly didnt realise, the house is detached but we don't have access to one of side of our house - I thought it was a bit strange that, whats the point in having a detached? anyway, it appears this is quite normal so no real issues. The wall that we can't have access to forms the boundary, and on further inspection our neighbour has bolted his gate to this wall, he has also bolted his back garden fence to this wall and also there is a plank of wood bolted to my house rear wall! (does that make sense) which helps support his fence, and then to make matters worse the 5 wall posts are completely into our garden and over the boundary so that his fence is nice and flush with our wall! and then the cheeky guy has put flags down which go under his fence and a couple of inches past the edge of our house and into our garden!

So then to the other side - the other neighbour, they have built a supporting wall around there garden so that they can have it flattened (the gardens have an incline) which is a good idea, she has built this wall on the boundary line so I suppose half of it is into our garden - not the end of the world and I dont think this is a relationship breaker, but then the fence built on top of the wall has its 4 or 5 posts into our garden and they are secured into concrete!

I wanted to get the garden flattened - got a friend round, he said it couldn't really be done as next doors fence posts would end up not in the ground - would have to build another supporting wall way into our garden (am aware we need to build a supporting wall anyway) when really I should be able to build right up to the boundary line (which technically I can't build right up to the line as her wall is half over anyway - and thats if we got the posts removed!)

Sounds straight forward - so I spoke to the rude sales office, they inform me that they gave permission to the neighbours for all this to be done whilst they were still the 'owners' of the house! and we can't do anything about it - other than not sign for the house (next week), but it really is our dream home :(

Has anybody any ideas?

Thanks
Gemma
(sorry its so long)

I agree with everyone else - pull out as this isn't a good start. I'm sure it's not personal to you but rather they're selfish.

I would say though, we've lived in a few detached properties - both new build & 1930s traditional - and haven't always had access to all walls is I don't think having a detached necessarily means you can walk all around it.

Good luck!

Just to add, our house was built in 1875, it's detached but we don't have land round the whole house. One of our walls is only accessed from our NDN land as it forms the passage into their garden. I think we have access to maintain as part of the deeds so it didn't worry me.

The wall carries on and forms the boundary for our garden, and it's the retaining wall as our land is higher.

So it's not that unusual and not just modern houses!

But the rest of your issues would be enough to put me right off this house.

Pull out. Having problems with your neighbours is simply awful.

Either your new home will be at a disadvantage if you do t say anything, or they will be pissed off at you if you do.

Persimmon are exploiting your naivety to rip you off by selling the house under false pretences and by lying to you about having to use their solicitor.

You might well lose a couple of hundred pounds by pulling out. You are likely to lose tens of thousands by buying a house with a pre-existing boundary dispute and any maintenance issues caused by the fence attached to your wall.

Persimmon are attempting to take you for gullible fools - they can only get away with this if you let them.

Hard ball with persimmon definitely.

No, don't sign. That's wrong. Detached means just exactly that.

If you buy it & end up having to get legal advice it will cost you far more than what you will lose by pulling out.

If you went to the supermarket and bought 6 eggs, but got home and there were 5, you'd be annoyed. This is the same principle. They have sold you a house with XXXXX amount of land for XYZ, but your neighbours have taken X so you get less land for the same money.

I agree that they are going to be an absolute nightmare. You can either back out, ask for Persimmon to refund the land you've now lost, or get them to tell your neighbours to move their fences.

Eeeek. Thanks all for the advice. We are going to go tomorrow and 'sort' it, will update.

Thanks to all

Our house is built the same way, except the garden boundary walls were built with the houses. Everybodies gates are attached to the wall of house next door. People have ivy,trellis and hanging baskets on the side wall of their neighbours house. In 25 years there has never been an issue.

I don't like the fence situation and would want that rectified before signing. It sounds like an eyesore. Other prospective buyers would feel the same so its not in the builders best interest either.

If the neighbour, in good faith, asked the builder and the builder said yes that doesn't make them a bad neighbour. Its the builders fault.

Just marking my place on this one - DH really wants us to get a new build, but they sound like an awful lot of hassle
I agree - insist on the issue being rectified or pull out. Even if you lost a couple of hundred quid, we're talking YEARS living in a house with neighbours that have taken advantage, and that blinking gate clattering away! Not good.

We lost out on our first house. Vendors pulled out after we'd already incurred legal costs / survey/ searches etc. I can honestly say I'm so glad they did it. We ended up in a much better house. The cost you're 'losing' now is worth it to get away from a house that isn't right for you.

My friend in new build hates her 3.5 bath, 3 bed house. Think they ended up ripping out an ensuite to make a child's room bigger.

Boundary issues are a nightmare. It's just not worth it as it will forever upset you. Also when you come to sell you can imagine prospective buyers being put off: someone looking for a detached house wouldn't be interested.

Hope you get it sorted.

New builds appear to be tiny with small back gardens. Easy to maintain, but not good if you want some quiet time without your neighbours being close by.

No one 'in good faith' pinches several inches of their neighbour's garden. Asking the builder doesn't make it ok to sneak a bit of garden by putting your fence too far over.

OP you really need to sort this out with independent legal advice, the cost will be worth it you will lose a lot more if you don't. There is no way your neighbours should be attaching things to your supporting wall, it is part of your house that you are paying for it is not their property, they have no legal right to touch it, and they could well cause/have caused damage to it which if you let it go may end up costing you dear and invalidating your buildings insurance.

You are responsible for maintaining the boundaries of your property so you need to know exactly where those boundaries are. Your neighbours may well have erected fences/walls on boundaries that belong to you and you are therefore legally required to maintain said fences or walls. So if the wall suffers frost damage you would have to repair it, if the fence blows down you would have to repair it, etc., etc.

There is no way either, legally, your neighbours can encroach on your land with their fencing/walls.

If you wanted to erect a fence and didn't own the boundary you have to erect it inside the boundary on your side, and again you have to put the 'good' side to the neighbour, absolutely no fixings on their land. If you own the boundary you could agree to your neighbour putting the fence on the boundary line, with the fixings his side and also that maintenance is his responsibility but the maintenance aspect would need to be noted in legal documentation.

Persimmon cannot unilaterally allow the neighbours to build fencing or walls on your land as they will have submitted planning documents and registrations to the land registry detailing the exact boundaries of each property and which boundary belongs to which property and if they want to change them they have to re-submit the documentation. They could only agree to them being erected as set out above.

Property boundaries and fencing/walls thereon are a conveyancing nightmare which is why you need to take your own independent legal advice immediately. Persimmon's solicitor is acting in their interests not yours.

Please get urgent independent legal advice, if you accept this and move in it will forever niggle you and will spoil totally your 'dream' house, I fear you will regret it in the long term.

Also, if you don't sort this out now when you come to re-sell the property it will open up a legal can of worms which may well result in potential buyers pulling out or it costing you a lot of money in loss of value of the property as future potential buyers solicitors will not let the sale proceed.

Persimmon are in the wrong, they know that and are hoping you won't kick up a fuss, don't let them get away with it as you will pay for it in the long run.

Good luck.

I think you're being rather too kind about the neighbours. Both sets knew exactly what they were doing and I wouldn't fancy either being my neighbours for who knows how long!

Good luck!

Also, there is no way on earth your neighbour has any right whatsoever to bolt a plank of wood to your rear wall to support his fence, that is just so wrong on so many levels.

Remember the four walls of your house belong to you, you are the one paying for them.

All the best with sorting it out.

You could post on GARDEN LAW website for more expert advice. I am not sure all the advice on this thread is correct. actually, I am pretty sure some is wrong

If you did buy the house and the fence posts were on your land you would be entitled to let the owners of the fences know and to ask them to remove them. If they didn't you could remove them and return them to your nieghbours. The fact the builder gave them permission to erect them is totally meaningless.
Don't assume anything about the boundaries until you have actually seen the land registry plans/ title deeds etc - they are not always as 'exact' or accurate as you might want.

With regard to your 'wall' that is only accessible from your nieghbours property there may be provision by way of a right of entry for you to inspect and maintain the wall. If nothing is specified in the deeds you can apply to the country court for an access order to inspect and carry out work to the wall. There might be a fee for this (?)

Btw I'm not an expert in this at all so you should check everything with someone qualified. Get everything in writing and take lots of photos too.

HERE is the land registries info on boundaries.

Final essay for the night, OP.

Find out exactly which boundaries are yours.

Neighbour 1 and his fence - if you own this boundary which I should imagine you do, you want the following done before you sign anything -

Removal of all items fixed to your property and damage made good, especially the plank of wood on the rear wall and including the garden gate.
The fence to be sited exactly on the boundary with all fixings his side of the boundary and nothing encroaching on your side.
Make good any damage caused by the original siting of the fence in your garden.
Or Persimmon to build a dividing wall from your property, on the boundary line, and decide whether or not you want the neighbours gate re-sited on this wall as it will be your wall to maintain so you decide what they can/cannot attach to it.

Neighbour 2 and her wall - you may not own this boundary, and as the wall is on the boundary line it is probably ok, BUT, she must remove the fence posts that are on your land, and the concrete and make good.
If you do own this boundary you need to clarify who will be responsible for maintaining the wall.

The neighbours have only done what they have done so their gardens look good and sod you - don't let them or Persimmon get away with it.

I'm late to the party, but did these neighbours really get permission from the developers or did they just do what they wanted (or rather what their builders/contractors wanted because it was easier for them), taking advantage of no one living in the next door house? The sales office may just be saying they gave permission to make you think there is nothing you can do about the situation because they want the sale to go through.

If it were me I wouldn't go ahead with the status quo - what you have agreed to buy has been unilaterally changed by both sets of neighbours (if that's possible) in an unacceptable way.

FWIW I lived in a house where the NDN's extension wall was on the boundary line. The gate at the end of the path between their extension and mine was attached to a pillar set in the ground next to their extension wall but not fixed to the wall and the catch was on my extension wall. I imagine that is harder to do, perhaps more expensive and takes a couple of inches off what was my garden, but it's the correct and neighbourly way to do things.

Also when you speak to Persimmon today, bear in mind just how gleeful your local paper will be to pick up and run with the story...there is usually a history of public opposition to new developments so this is eaxactly the type of story to interest their readers...

Haven't read entire thread. So sorry if repeating.

Call the solicitor and ask have you exchanged contracts?
If you haven't yet exchanged (and you are in England) ask you solicitor what charges will you incur if you pull out now?

Your deposit should be returned (not the reservation fee you initially paid). You may incur abortive solicitor fees.

Then find another property.

If you are not using the government help to buy scheme check out second hand houses. You get far more house for your money in most areas.

Never use a broker or solicitor who works for a new build company. The pressure from the new homes company to complete is high. Use one recommended to you if poss.

If you do decide to go ahead get a recommended solicitor to check everything. Well worth the cost.

I would pull out, and also point out that as they have allowed the neighbours to join their house to yours, then they can no longer market it as detatched. It is now "link detatched" and worth considerably less than the price they are asking.

(I once viewed a house which was billed as "Link detatched" which usually means that the houses are linked by a garage, but this was also linked by the room above. Which meant it was a terrace.)