New detached house not so detached

[Gemmawashere]

Hello - I have been reading many a useful topic on here for ages and am now hoping somebody can help with my issue regarding boundaries etc.

We are about to sign for a new house - a persimmon detached house that was already built with wall and roof and is just having the insides finished.

The neighbours to each side have already moved in - perhaps 1 month ago max.

This is our first house so not very experienced with how it all goes - anyway, the first thing was - which we stupidly didnt realise, the house is detached but we don't have access to one of side of our house - I thought it was a bit strange that, whats the point in having a detached? anyway, it appears this is quite normal so no real issues. The wall that we can't have access to forms the boundary, and on further inspection our neighbour has bolted his gate to this wall, he has also bolted his back garden fence to this wall and also there is a plank of wood bolted to my house rear wall! (does that make sense) which helps support his fence, and then to make matters worse the 5 wall posts are completely into our garden and over the boundary so that his fence is nice and flush with our wall! and then the cheeky guy has put flags down which go under his fence and a couple of inches past the edge of our house and into our garden!

So then to the other side - the other neighbour, they have built a supporting wall around there garden so that they can have it flattened (the gardens have an incline) which is a good idea, she has built this wall on the boundary line so I suppose half of it is into our garden - not the end of the world and I dont think this is a relationship breaker, but then the fence built on top of the wall has its 4 or 5 posts into our garden and they are secured into concrete!

I wanted to get the garden flattened - got a friend round, he said it couldn't really be done as next doors fence posts would end up not in the ground - would have to build another supporting wall way into our garden (am aware we need to build a supporting wall anyway) when really I should be able to build right up to the boundary line (which technically I can't build right up to the line as her wall is half over anyway - and thats if we got the posts removed!)

Sounds straight forward - so I spoke to the rude sales office, they inform me that they gave permission to the neighbours for all this to be done whilst they were still the 'owners' of the house! and we can't do anything about it - other than not sign for the house (next week), but it really is our dream home :(

Has anybody any ideas?

Thanks
Gemma
(sorry its so long)

How many people have two fences between their garden and their neighbours?

Because this is what the OP is suggesting will be necessary.

Yes I don't think the gate should have been attached to your house but I don't get the angst over the fence.

and hanging baskets are naff

Seriously, please just walk away. If you buy it, whatever the outcome is, there will be bad feeling with your neighbours on both sides - either because you've decided to live with it in which case it will infuriate you or you've made your neighbours move their fences. I lived in a house where I fell out with my neighbour over a similar issue and it was utterly poisonous. It got to the point where she would stare at me when I was sitting in the garden so I stopped going outside. Don't underestimate the emotional toll this type of thing will take.

And a pp makes a good point - even if you decide to suck it up, you may find it very difficult to sell later on. And your solicitor (assume this is the one they recommended?) sounds absolutely shit.

Good lord.

I am early in the minority here but I read your protestations and threats of legal action with amusement and a degree of disbelief. The other posters who have shared your outrage are similarly out of touch with reality.

Attaching a fence does not stop a house being detached. Nor does the inability to access one boundary wall.

Getting cross about having to erect a second fence is crazy - I have never come across a double fence as you suggest and I've owned dozens of houses. Not saying they don't exist bit there is no need to install another. Hating, as you proclaimed up thread, your future neighbours is dafter still. But neither are as daft as you silly threats to legally pursue change after or prior to purchase which is why the advice from your lawyer is CORRECT. You could have objected to each and every one of these issues if you owned the house. You didn't. You could probably fight legally to get it all changed retrospectively but it would cost £1000s and I couldn't be certain that a judge would not suggest that the hurt caused was proportionate to the cost of removal and replacement. You describe the current arrangement as what a 'good neighbour' would build. The developer was building the fences and owned your property at the time. They therefore in your own words acted as a good neighbour. Why now the histrionics?

I'm sure that the house and plot are tiny which is why this stuff matters. It's a problem with new developments. But it will be priced accordingly. Spend more on a house if you want lots of room.

You have two choices. Buy it as is or walk. Personally I think you should walk. Not because you would be hard done by but because you sound too high strung to have neighbours and remind me why I am so pleased I no longer have any.

Good luck with the new solicitor, may also be wotth complaining to Persimmon higher-ups about this situation to highlight the bad practice and shoddy treatment of buyers at this site. The sales team and site manager need a refresh of their customer service skills at the very, very least.

I think you have to realise that they have one motivation and one only. That is to get those houses sold NO MATTER WHAT

So the policy is:

Potential buyer of first house "Well I'd like a fence before I buy"

Persimmon - "Yes sir, certainly sir" Builds fence encroaching on your land so Buyer 1 will sign

Potential buyer of second house "I'd like garden levelled"

Persimmon - "Yes sir, certainly sir" Levels garden and builds fence encroaching on your land so Buyer 2 will sign.

Potential buyer of third house "Um these two things are encroaching on my land."

Persimmon "Lie, lie lie, you MUST buy this house lie lie LIE"

You had the misfortune to be buyer 3. Had you been buyer 1 or 2 you would have been quite happy.

Please, PLEASE walk away and seek the advice of an independent solicitor.

We have fences but they are on our land, the neighbours fence is on his boundary.

I'd be pulling out because it will always piss you off.

Persimmon sound a right shower of cunts too.

I agree with others that this all sounds a bit dodgy, but I don't see the OP's point about needing a second fence. I have never seen anyone with a double fence.

Usually you are each responsible for the fence to the left (or right). I don't think of it as 'ours' or 'theirs' beyond that - the sides that face into me are mine and the sides that face their garden are theirs. We have put trellis up on my 'neighbours' fence (I didn't ask first) and I have no idea and don't mind what my other neighbours have done to 'ours' where it faces into their garden.

So Fluffy you have two fences between your garden and the next door neighbour?

How odd?

Baloon that reminds me of the eye rolling and patronising looks I got off David Wilson sale women when dh and I said we'd like to view the house before buying it.

Apparently no one does that now, everyone buys off plan. Didn't we know that? Silly people wanting to see the house.

A year later we've been in our newbuild for a while now and they are still trying to sell those houses. Now with added incentives! The main one being that you can look at it.

Really netguru? You'd be really happy if your neighbour bolted their fence to your house? I don't believe you.

It's not her house - yet. It was the builder's house and they were not only content - they did the work.

I have two telephone poles and an electric pole in my garden. Should I not have bought the house? I could have chosen not to of course but I could not have got them moved because I didn't like the arrangement.

One of the houses I own to rent out is detached with one meter walkway on left. The one meter walkway on right is used by neighbouring property thus I have no clear access to that wall (there is legal access available with notice to carry out necessary works). The gate on that side spans the two properties. I can't recall which side the gate is attached to and I could give a rats arse. I have no idea which side the fence posts are on either.

The property is one of 400 or so identical ones in that estate built thirty odd years ago.

So. You don't believe I would permit it? Get real.

But the OP has a choice and she doesn't want her neighbour's stuff attached to her house. So she can just walk away. Most of us think that she's right but then we're not all BTL landlords :)

I've never come across a house with 2 fences on the boundary either. All the places I've owned you own one of the fences which you maintain - what my neighbour does to the other side is up to him as long as it doesn't make my fence fall down!

But in your situation I would walk away, only because this issue will always taint the house for you and it will always be there. We walked away from a house I loved because a massive chunk of the garden had been kept by the house behind when the estate was built in the 70s. At some point we hopefully would have been able to buy it back but in the end the uncertainty put me off the actual house I loved. I would have always been annoyed by the missing bit of the garden.

Pull out. Pull out. Pull out. Pull out. Pull out.

This is the biggest red flag (probably erected over the boundary line into your garden) ever to have been waved. Any money you lose will be nothing compared to the nightmare living there will bring you. Do not sign anything and get the hell away from that house. It's making me shudder just thinking of years of gate banging and fence disputes let alone trying to then sell the house with boundary disputes etc.

Oddfod - I agree with you absolutely. She has a choice. Buy it or don't buy it. Like you also I think she shouldn't buy it - but for different reasons.

BTL would suggest I bought to let. Nothing could be further from the truth. I still happen to own and let out a property with similar set up so thought it worth mentioning given the poster suggested I was lying when I said it wouldn't bother me.

Properly is emotive but it is essentially a business transaction. Buy or don't buy. If the house was sold prior to these changes then the Op stands a fair chance of getting her 'interest' deposit back. If she loves it she could argue for a discount - rate of success will depend most probably on sunk costs and local property market. But she is clearly so unhappy at the fences she should not buy on my view

The thing is, the OP signed up for the house when Persimmon said 'this is your garden - all of this amount'. Now, when its close, she's being told 'Oh, by the way, we've given you less garden than we showed and we've put some wood on the back wall of your house to attach one of the fences to so that it looks good for your neighbour', and the way we've build the wall and fence for your other neighbour means you can't terrace / level your garden either.'

I would definitely walk away OP.

Cut your losses and walk away! There will be other houses.

If you google Persimmon they have a terrible reputation for the way they treat buyers and after care.

I think pull out. And tell Persimmon it's because they are now selling you a house on a smaller plot having moved the boundary. Hard lessons about not using their solicitor etc but there is a better home out there for you.

I think the issue is that she wanted her garden levelled. This would mean that you have to build a retaining wall or the soil rots the fence. So it is quite common to have two walls, but one boundary.

The other issue about attaching gates to walls is also a structural issue, as gates need a separate post. Attaching a gate to a wall is just dangerous. I'm a Garden designer and was come across this stuff all the time.

These issues aside I wouldn't buy anyway because Persimmon seem to have shoddy morals as someone suggested up thread with over egging the pudding generally, allowing faulty construction on their walls and advising certain solicitors.

The neighbours sound grabby and a bit dense.

Visit gardenlaw.co.uk.

Persimmon are just being ridiculous. Their contractors have bodged up a fence and gate on one side, employing only the quickest and cheapest methods (not doing it properly). They've done something similarly bodgey on the other side, which now means the person who buys the house cannot now flatten their garden.

You can reasonably expect the same corner cutting, bodgetastic attitude to have characterised the entire build. I wouldn't be expecting a high standard of finish or workmanship.

Lol, if anyone thinks boundary disputes don't matter try looking at the garden law website. It's seriously scary.

The overriding advice given is to try and maintain a good relationship with your nieghbours and sort things out sensibly and amicably.

I've bought new houses and I can't say I have ever had one where the developers have been totally honest with me. I had a shared driveway that was meant to be completed with a week of moving in but wasn't done for a year and a half. Etc etc . I just thougt it was par for the course and it hasn't put me off.

BalloonSlayer has it spot on.

OP, what about trying for a price reduction? OP have you found out how exact the measurements for the land are?

I have my nieghbours fence attached to my wall on one side and I gave attached my fence to my other nieghbours wall. It is very normal practice although you should always ask.

Or they could look at the series of MN fencegate threads from last year (I think it was last year). It was a ludicrous dispute over whether the side of the OP's fence that didn't face her house should be blue or red, and included stealth missions to hang over the fence and repaint it while the neighbour wasn't looking. And the boundary itself (I.e. The amount of land each person owned) wasn't even in question there.