New detached house not so detached

[Gemmawashere]

Hello - I have been reading many a useful topic on here for ages and am now hoping somebody can help with my issue regarding boundaries etc.

We are about to sign for a new house - a persimmon detached house that was already built with wall and roof and is just having the insides finished.

The neighbours to each side have already moved in - perhaps 1 month ago max.

This is our first house so not very experienced with how it all goes - anyway, the first thing was - which we stupidly didnt realise, the house is detached but we don't have access to one of side of our house - I thought it was a bit strange that, whats the point in having a detached? anyway, it appears this is quite normal so no real issues. The wall that we can't have access to forms the boundary, and on further inspection our neighbour has bolted his gate to this wall, he has also bolted his back garden fence to this wall and also there is a plank of wood bolted to my house rear wall! (does that make sense) which helps support his fence, and then to make matters worse the 5 wall posts are completely into our garden and over the boundary so that his fence is nice and flush with our wall! and then the cheeky guy has put flags down which go under his fence and a couple of inches past the edge of our house and into our garden!

So then to the other side - the other neighbour, they have built a supporting wall around there garden so that they can have it flattened (the gardens have an incline) which is a good idea, she has built this wall on the boundary line so I suppose half of it is into our garden - not the end of the world and I dont think this is a relationship breaker, but then the fence built on top of the wall has its 4 or 5 posts into our garden and they are secured into concrete!

I wanted to get the garden flattened - got a friend round, he said it couldn't really be done as next doors fence posts would end up not in the ground - would have to build another supporting wall way into our garden (am aware we need to build a supporting wall anyway) when really I should be able to build right up to the boundary line (which technically I can't build right up to the line as her wall is half over anyway - and thats if we got the posts removed!)

Sounds straight forward - so I spoke to the rude sales office, they inform me that they gave permission to the neighbours for all this to be done whilst they were still the 'owners' of the house! and we can't do anything about it - other than not sign for the house (next week), but it really is our dream home :(

Has anybody any ideas?

Thanks
Gemma
(sorry its so long)

You must get legal advice you know you can trust as a starting point. But if some kind of agreeable resolution is possible it seems to me resentment/ill-feeling/loss of good will on your side and/or your neighbours seems inevitable.

Golden rule of buying from builder is Believe nothing the sales office tell you Please take independent legal advice ASAP Boundary fences in new builds are normally built half and half of your land and neighbours land and are mutually maintained The titles should detail all this Get a solicitor now

Thanks for all the replies - really appreciate it.

I think maybe if we are going to pull out of the sale then we may as well use it as a threat first - tell them we want it sorting or we pull out, and if they don't/won't then we pull out anyway.

I thought it was really strange not having access to our own wall - a detached house that you can't walk all the way around, the more I read your replies the more I think I have been conned - I honestly thought with it being a 'big' company everything would be above board.

You can't buy a house that feels wrong because you will lose money. You have to be happy.

I am a bit at permission being given for them to nick some of your garden.

I would see a different solicitor to get advice but do not go ahead if your gut is saying no. These people have already decided to take the piss. They will be seeing what else they can get away with.

Persimmon don't supply fences or gates with your 200K house - its an extra, so the neighbours own these fences in there entirety as they have paid for them - we can't even paint them / stain them without written permission and we certainly can't drill into them or hang baskets off them or allow 'creepers' to grow up them - but it would appear they can happily drill into our walls.

Thanks for all the replies

Please do get independent advice before you commit to this. You seem to have been royally ripped off, or at least your neighbours have been allowed to play you by virtue of getting in there first. Don't rush on out of desperation - that's what they're counting on.

I would definitely be kicking up a fuss about the you can't touch our fences that we built on your land but we can drill into the walls of your house thing.

And I'd be questioning if these are really people I wanted to live next door to.

I think the fencing situation depends on the development. The one we were looking at has walls round the back gardens as standard on all houses, with gates out the back if you need access to a garage/driveway that way. And fences at the front. The driveways seem to have gates too. You have to pay extra if you want turf though, but at least the wall might help to hold the top soil they so magnanimously include in the price in place. The sales office frame the no turf thing as a positive. Apparently it means you can do whatever you like with your garden.

The burning question, however, OP is: what is the bedroom to toilet ratio in the house you have been trying to buy? That seems to be the key thing with new builds. Developers pride themselves on squeezing in more toilets than bedrooms these days.

I would pull out.

Tell them you're going to and mean it.

If they don't back down, you've lost nothing.

If they do, proceed on the understanding it's with your own solicitor and conditional on all the fencing being taken down immediately until further notice.

Persimmon don't have the house that you thought you were going to get. They certainly haven't protected it for you. I think that you should be able to get your deposit back if they wont resolve all the boundary/ party wall issues for having not protected the house in the anticipated state for sale.

I will tell you this though. I had a neighbour that kicked off the day we moved in, we hadn't even unpacked. She was a righteous PITA for five years until we moved out. I hated that woman, and even looking at her back walking down the road pissed me off in the end.

They say good fences make good neighbours. But I would say not when said fence is attached to your house and encroaching on your land and taking the piss of a loophole rather than by consent.

Ha Ha - yeah we thought it strange that it has 3 bathrooms to the 4 bedrooms - would have preferred the extra cost to go towards a foot of land so I can walk around the entire house!

Plan is - go tomorrow and demand this is put right or we want full refund and reimbursement of any costs etc or we find a solicitor to look into everything - the boundary and the practice of the sales office.

Thanks for all the replies - very very grateful.

That's quite restrained. Many new builds have 4.5 bathrooms for 4 bedrooms (family bathroom, 3 ensuites and a downstairs loo). Some even have a downstairs shower room in addition to the upstairs bathroom and 3 ensuites. . I'm exhausted just thinking about cleaning that many bathrooms.

You are doing the right thing. I wouldn't sign either.

Even if it is put right would you still want to live there? I can't see the neighbours being happy at things being returned to how they were meant to be.

No I suppose living with these neighbours would be difficult - we are good people (we think) and we really can't get our heads around that they think they are right! that they have this right and we should accept it - they got in first so they win and we lose. It's upsetting because we would never have done anything like this - even if a 'dodgy' builder said 'i can get you some free land and a cheaper way of attaching your gate' I would have said NO WAY! - we are clearly weak and to be trod on, human kind - it would seem - puts greed and a free meal above others feelings.

Sorry i haven't read all the replies but i really think you ought to go and see a local independent solicitor, get this sorted before you sign on the dotted line, i don't think it has to be a deal breaker but you need to see the deeds to show what you own and who is responsible for which fence etc, we had a lovely fence chap come to do some work for us who said a fence does not constitute a boundary, but clearly you don't want other people popping fence posts etc in your garden! I imagine as pp will have said that your new independent solicitor can help resolve this

Good luck. The developer is taking the mick. As are your neighbours. I can't believe you don't get fencing included. Talk about a recipe for trouble.

Calamatously. You're right about bathrooms. They steal space from bedrooms.

Its ok redcaryellowcar, appreciate all comments.
I suppose I was hoping somebody could say - they can't do that (the house builders) - but I guess they can.

• are they really bad neighbours? they haven't even met us so it can't be personal can it?

agree with the others - dont sell. get your own solicitor, a few hundred quid now is nothing to the hundreds of thousands of pounds you are planning on spending on the house!!!

either you get the developer to re-draw the plans making your boundary smaller (ie what is actually there now excluding the neighbours fences) or you get them to have the neighbours move their fences. get a discount!!!!!! you are buying less land than you thought.

your solicitor should still advise you properly, start playing hardball!!

dont be rushed or pressured into anything!

It's not personal against you it's just very selfish therefore you'd assume it won't be the only thing they will be selfish about. I would pull out, there's plenty of new builds around now and in the near future

It's not personal against you it's just very selfish therefore you'd assume it won't be the only thing they will be selfish about. I would pull out, there's plenty of new builds around now and in the near future

It might not be personal, but the sort of neighbours who would steal a bit of your land to build their fence on/drill into someone else's house rather than putting up a fence post/put the ugly side of their fence facing the garden of the people whose land they built it in are likely to be annoying, selfish neighbours.

They're likely to be the sorts of people who always use up more than their fair share of parking spaces so you have nowhere to park (because they always get home before you) and even parking over your drive (or in it for that matter). Parking is always a bit of am issue on new build estates, as the developers don't want to waste space with stuff like that. They often don't want to do anything as frivolous as providing pavements either.

I think that you should either pull out, or have an independent solicitor look at the deeds and the plans.

If Persimmon are selling you a house with the boundaries drawn in a certain position, but they have since agreed that the neighbours build on/over those boundaries, then they are selling you something under false pretences.

if you go back to persimmon, you could then either insist on the original boundaries, all in place before you buy (which would cause a lot of upset with neighbours) Or negotiate a discount, and a plan with the actual land you are buying outlined.

If you buy with original plan, then when you sell there will be a problem over boundaries.