Compulsory religion? Can it be avoided?

[Agame]

Dear Mums… my DD and I just moved to Fife, Scotland from Texas, where she went to a British private school with no religious instruction at all, just academic subjects, arts, and fun. She’s been at St Leonards in St Andrews for two weeks. She’s five and in Year 1. She came home singing some Christian hymn and asking what the words meant. This is a shocker for me. I know St L is a great school, but iI don’t like Christian teaching happening behind my back at her school. It says nothing about Christian stuff being taught or infused into the curriculum on their website or any of their materials. What can or should I do? I’m not religious and I do not believe that school is where religion should be taught. There are many religions and many varieties of each. I believe it’s a personal and/or family decision. I’m taken aback to be learning now that religious instruction is compulsory in state schools in Scotland, and seems hard to avoid even in independent schools. Should I write a letter to the head of the school? Do I have any rights here? Are any schools simply secular private schools that leave religion out of the school day? Thank you!

Primary school bangers are parts of a shared British culture. Despite the words they don’t have much of a religious impact on anyone.

You are on a hiding to nothing if you want a British school in Britain without a daily act of broadly christian worship. I would also prefer religion to be extra curricular but it is not permitted. That said, the worship part is usually pretty low key - there is no indoctrination.

I went to a British state school, know all the standard hymns and the words to the Lord's Prayer and am an atheist. By husband went to a very full on Jesuit school and is an atheist. Just being around people singing All Things Bright and Beautiful does not mean your child will become a rabid christian. Also, most schools these days will recognise they have people from many faiths or none attending and will be sensitive to that.

Exactly.
All together now " Cauliflowers fluffy and cabbages green. Something or other, something than I've ever seen... "😇

Making up secular versions of primary school bangers to sing instead, and feeling very daring for singing your version (quietly!) in assembly is also part of the shared culture 😂 plenty of subversion goes on, from an early stage!

It’s a huge assumption that all children are Christian or should be.
Before you come barging in telling us how to run our country, I suggest that you do some research. The Church is 'established' in Britain. Look it up.

But it's one of those paradoxical things. Britain has an 'official' religion but the population is a lot less religious than some countries which separate Church and State e.g. USA or France.

Yes it can't have been a "British" school because there's not a British curriculum.
England, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own curriculums but all work towards the GCSE exams. Scotland is separate and has their own curriculum and a completely different set of exams.
Some private schools in Scotland choose to follow the English (I think) curriculum and take GCSEs.
As you say your daughter is in "Year 1" not "P1" then I assume St Leonard's is a school that isn't following the Scottish curriculum (as Scottish year groups are called Primary or "P" 1, 2 etc).
What made you choose St Leonard's out of curiosity?

I don't think it is 'assuming all children are Christian ' just that certain shared rituals have emerged, and continue to exist while also changing.

A bit like e.g. pledging allegiance to the flag (nationalist brain washing) and Thanksgiving (celebrating the start of the genocide of the existing inhabitants).

I get that it is jarring for an.outsider, but maybe start by trying to get under the skin of what it's all about.

I just googled the school.
They have their own chapel 😂
What did you think they use it for?

There are loads and loads of people in the UK who also take umbrage with the “assumption that all children are Christian or should be”. Feels like some replies on this thread are a bit tetchy because the OP is here from America - this is a topic that’s pretty divisive in the UK as well as has been seen on many discussions on this forum too. The OP isn’t wrong to sense that this unavoidable undercurrent of Christianity is a bit weird in schools. And to be fair I looked at the website for the school she mentioned and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that there is any Christian worship / hymns / prayers at the school at all. We would probably assume it having grown up here, but it isn’t at all made clear on their website.

Completely agree with your second paragraph though. We react to the official line by lightly ignoring it and taking the piss.

We are a Christian country. Whether you like it or not.

Onward Christian soldiers or
"Onward like a tortoise moves the church of God. Brothers we are treading where we've always trod" As sung in private moments by the vicar of a church school I had many happy years in.
It's all a background noise. It doesn't stick in the lives of the vast majority of us.

STATE SCHOOLS
In Scotland, there are no legal requirements for state schools with no religious character to hold daily acts of collective worship. The Education (Scotland) Act 1980 sets out that in all state-funded schools, the practice of ‘religious observance’ should occur at least six times a year, unless a resolution to discontinue this has been passed by the local education authority and approved by the electors in that local authority area.
The Scottish Government’s Curriculum for Excellence: Provision of Religious Observance in Schools (March 2017) states that schools may feel that a different name for the events that meet their religious observance requirements will be more appropriate to their individual context and culture. For example, in a non-denominational school, the use of the term ‘Time for Reflection’ might be considered more appropriate by the school community.
Parents have a statutory right to remove their children from participating in religious observance, as long as their children attend a non-denominational school. However, it is more difficult for a parent to remove their child from religious observance if they attend a denominational school, as it is implied that they have decided to opt in to the school’s religious character. In Scotland, children or young people do not have the right to withdraw themselves from religious observance.
PRIVATE SCHOOLS
Private schools are allowed to do what they like with regard to collective worship: they can choose to have it or not, and do not need to offer the right of withdrawal for parents or pupils. When private schools have a religious character, they typically practice daily collective worship.

From assembliesforall.org.uk/about/law-on-assemblies

@Talipesmum but wouldn't you question what the chapel is used for when you research the school?

Well, if they weren't teaching religious studies and allowed people to opt out of broadening their world view then they weren't following the British curriculum.

Op probably thought it all looked very pretty and suitably expensive. It would seem that not a lot of research was done

Yes, clearly. Though less and less so. I’m completely fine with it being around, I just ignore it as do many others.

The context here is that the OP has come from America, which is a much more strongly Christian country than the UK, yet in their schools they don’t have hymns etc. So she turns up here, to a less Christian country, and finds that she’s somehow ended up with a school where there’s this thread of Christianity running through it. So she’s likely puzzled, and wondering if this makes the school uber duber super extra religious, since this isn’t a thing in schools where she previously lived. We are all explaining that yes it’s there, but it doesn’t make us Christian, and not all of us agree.

There’s no mention of it on the school website so if I did see it was there, I’d probably think it was because there are lots of old historical buildings around, and that it was for the use of any Christians at the school. There was a chapel at my university, there’s a chapel at my local hospital. Didn’t mean we did assembly or prayers at either.

Oh I don't know, historically Christian yes, but it does seem out of touch with the reality of British life nowadays.

although this reminds me of an incident involving an American friend of mine: she was shocked and slightly appalled that a friend of ours had gone to a C of E school but learnt almost nothing from the Bible. She did grasp that the church runs so many schools for historical reasons but she was very puzzled at them not actually teaching much Christianity. To be honest, I didn't have much of a reply for her.

There are lots of ignorant comments on this thread. People assuming their personal experience is universal.

For a start there is no 'UK education system'.

Even going back to the 1800s Scotland had a completely different education system from England. The history of schools & connection to religion is very different.

Even so in Scotland most schools with a 'St' name are Catholic. The Presbyterian Church of Scotland doesn't have schools the way the Episcopalian Church of England does.

Religious Observance in Scottish state schools is separate from RE/ Religious Education. RE is a taught subject on all religions which can be done as an academic subject up to AH level.

RO isn't compulsory (Scotland doesn't have a national curriculum unlike England). Councils decide whether they do RO in their schools. Some do some don't.

What your DD had sounds like RO (usually in morning assemblies) rather than RE.

Private/Independent schools in Scotland can choose whether to do RO or not. They will all have pupils who opt out.

Op should speak to the school. They will be used to having American parents who are used to secular schooling. It's not going to be a big problem.

Sending your child to a school named after a saint might have given you a heads up that this might happen.

Have you considered the possibility that your child might be a Christian? (I'm not and have no interest in religion but it's perfectly possible that she might have made her own decision already).

But you can exempt her.

https://education.gov.scot/parentzone/curriculum-in-scotland/curriculum-areas/religious-and-moral-education/

She's puzzled, but clearly hasn't done anything to find out about how British schools run. Her "British school" in the US wasn't following British curriculum apparently.

Just seems odd to move half way across the world and no absolutely nothing about the schools, especially since she's paying and actively chose that school 🤷‍♀️

Secular education doesn’t exist in the UK. You’ll be very hard pushed to found any school that doesn’t do hymns, prayers, RE, Christmas services, Harvest festivals etc.

my kids are at public school in France, it’s completely secular and a very different ethos to the UK.

This is an independent school, so they can probably just point OP to the door if she wants to opt out of parts of school life.

@Talipesmum I looked at the website for the school she mentioned and there is absolutely nothing to indicate that there is any Christian worship / hymns / prayers at the school at all.

Absolutely nothing except the NAME (after a Christian Saint) and the admissions policy (" Although St Leonards has a Christian ethos, the School does not select for entry on the basis of religious belief, and it offers the opportunity for all to practise their own faiths.") which the OP should have read before applying. Oh, and the fact that it does International Baccalaureate rather than GCSE etc., which is far from mainstream in Britain. So, effectively, you could point out that in some respects, the only thing uniquely British about this private school is its location. It is a fact that it is located in Britain.

Surely she would have seen it on a tour of the school?
Google says the chapel isn't technically part of the school (more associated with the university) but it's in the grounds of the school.
On visiting the school surely she would have seen the chapel yet didn't once ask about it.
I don't know if the children actually do have assemblies there but a school named after a Saint with links to a university also named after a Saint (historically started by a religious order) that has a chapel within it's grounds.....she didn't once ask about any Christian links?