Saint Ronans, Hawkhurst versus Dulwich Prep, Cranbrook

[Guilietta]

Are there any parents with children currently at Saint Ronans or Dulwich prep in Cranbrook who can give a view on these schools please, particularly on the new Head at St R?
Looking to start in reception for an energetic, bright but sensitive child.

Refer to a similar recent thread on https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/private-school/5174300-vinehall-marlborough-vs-dulwich-cranbrook

Not a great fan of St Ronans but, of the two, I would pick it for a sensitive child. Dulwich these days is pretty pushy IMO. How about the new Marlborough House Vinehall! Frankly, the child you describe would be better off with the merger of these two than the two you mention, as both are known to be more nurturing.

Thanks. We liked Vinehall when we visited, but are mainly ruling out due to distance and travel time

Thanks, I’m also following that thread

Curious, what did you choose and what do you think?

Can I ask why not a fan of St R? We’ve had similar choices to make

If you are tenterden side then I would also look at Ashford Prep

I was just wondering if you have any more insight into St Ronan’s and Dulwich Cranbrook? I’m trying to get a better feel for the differences between the two. Is one more academically ambitious than the other? And what is the music provision like, particularly for string players? Are there lots of teams and opportunities for sporty children?

We would be looking at schools such as Sevenoaks, Benenden, Tonbridge, Eton, Wycombe Abbey and Brighton further down the line, so I’m also interested in how well each school prepares children for that sort of senior-school route.

I’ve found it slightly difficult to judge the destinations from the information available, as although both schools list their leavers’ destinations, neither seems particularly keen to share numbers of children going on to particular schools in recent years. I completely understand that these things vary from year to year, but it would be helpful to have a bit more of a sense of the patterns.

Their current prep is brilliant, but unfortunately, it would be too far from a house we are interested in, so we’re having to explore other options.

Saint ronans is very nurturing and does have a huge dose of magic thrown in. They do so many amazing extra bits and bobs I wonder if their academics get a little lost sometimes. Your child will be well looked after if want a nurturing environment. My son and daughter both loved it and very different personalities. Dulwich is more academic focused and not as quirky which may or may suit you better.

They’re actually quite different sorts of schools, so I think a lot depends on what sort of environment and senior-school route you’re after.

Dulwich Cranbrook isn’t really a traditional 13+ prep in the classic sense, partly because it goes through to 16. Quite a lot of children either stay there or move into the local grammar system, particularly Cranbrook, so it doesn’t have quite the same culture of feeding the major public schools at 13.

Saint Ronan’s is much more of a traditional country prep. Some do leave for Cranbrook at 11, but it’s fundamentally geared towards 13+ senior-school entry and the more traditional independent-school route. King’s Canterbury is a common destination, but children also often go on to Tonbridge, Sevenoaks, Brighton College, Marlborough, Harrow, Radley, Charterhouse and others. Benenden is also a notably common destination for girls, both day and boarding.

Saint Ronan’s has also always had quite a multigenerational feel. Former pupils often send their own children there and, historically, many Old Ronians went on to Eton, so there have long been strong links between the two schools. The parent body has also traditionally tended to come from more established independent-school backgrounds.

Music is a particular strength at Saint Ronan’s. There’s a strong culture of choirs, ensembles, individual tuition and performance, and a good number of children leave with music awards or scholarships. Sport is also a big part of school life, but it doesn’t feel especially results-driven.

The atmosphere is quite distinctive too. Saint Ronan’s is very much in the Cottesmore/Brambletye/Port Regis mould, a traditional country prep school, characterful and with a strong identity.

Dulwich just has a different feel really. It’s less rooted in the traditional 13+ prep-school model and more of an all-through independent school, with more children either staying on or moving into the local grammar system.

So I think that’s the main difference. If you’re already thinking in terms of Eton, Tonbridge, Wycombe Abbey, Sevenoaks, Brighton, Saint Ronan’s sits much more naturally in that traditional 13+ prep-school world. Dulwich has a different structure and a different destination profile.

Dulwich is absolutely not more academically focused. This is nonsense. We have detailed, direct experience of both schools.

This is all hugely helpful information, thank you all so much. We have visited both, and St Ronan’s does feel like a better fit. We are just very torn, as our children are extremely happy at Hilden Grange, but it is just a little too far from Goudhurst.

I don’t suppose anyone happens to know how St Ronan’s compares specifically with Hilden Grange, or with similarly academically stretching preps, particularly if they have made a similar move from more central Tonbridge or Tunbridge Wells?

We are keen to find somewhere with a strong academic focus and a genuinely stretching curriculum. We are conscious that we probably wouldn’t be looking for something quite as holistic as Holmewood House has become, where the academic side can sometimes feel rather less central to the offering. I would be so grateful for any insight or experience, particularly from anyone who has made a similar move.

Happy for you to DM if helpful. We know a great deal about the application and assessment process to major public schools and achieving a successful outcome, including those in your list and others, as well as how the local preps prepare the DC. How old is/are your DC? No prep school will turn a naturally less academically able/focused child into an A* pupil across the board in all subjects, regardless of how academically focused the school may profess to be. If a DC is clearly very able academically, with stellar CAT scores and very academically driven, they will be in the top sets, within which they will be stretched and reach their potential. Im not sure if you are approaching this with entirely the right mindset. Major public schools are not just looking for academic ability. They also want a DC who will be part of their orchestra, compete well in their sports teams, perform on the stage, or be strong in the wider Arts or DT, throw themselves into boarding life, be a leader, have a strong behavioural record, have some personality. There are plenty of local grammars that can also accommodate a strong academic profile and often achieve similar academic outcomes for a bright pupil, if that is one's primary goal - without the cost. But, if a child is happy, is presented with and encouraged in, many other co curricular areas in addition to academics, that makes for a much more 'marketable' child, to senior schools. It makes them more interesting as a person and have more to talk about. This is important in an increasingly AI dominated world. More importantly, the DC are generally happier and enthused to be at school. My advice would be to keep that in mind when considering a prep school and not only how academically focused they are, but what else of the above they are successfully developing in your DC. I'm not convinced that HG do that hugely well. SR absolutely do.

Have sent a message! More detail on the children’s ages there, as otherwise everyone will know who we are 😂

I’m not too worried about the eldest being marketable. They have high CATS, play their sport to a good club level, and we are being encouraged to think about music scholarships. They will also happily talk about all of the above until the cows come home, so I’m definitely not worried about them being a wallflower on taster days.

That said, I do agree that a lot of the sports we have had to pursue outside of school, and I think Hilden Grange could really improve its orchestral offering. St Ronan’s seems better at this, and it would be nice to have more available within school. That being said, I would rather drive to hockey than tutor my child in English, so I would always prioritise strong academics in school time.

My concern is more about the smallest one. The big advantage of HG is that they are pretty much guaranteed a place at Tonbridge. I can think of very, very few pupils who don’t secure a place. Their ISEB preparation is excellent, and Tonbridge is one of their top three boys/co ed hopes, so that is a big plus.
We’re really looking for something with a similar level of stretch to Hilden Grange, New Beacon or even Somerhill, rather than a more heavily holistic school like Holmewood, which seems to be more of a Bedes and Eastbourne feeder these days. They obviously still get top school offers, just not in the numbers they used to, and that’s absolutely not a criticism, as a lower pressure environment will suit some children much better.

I just don’t want to be kicking myself in a few years when it comes to school applications, and we still have time to put the brakes on this house move.

I think St Ronan’s potentially has enough of a traditional ethos to get that balance right for our family, the countryside prep vibes/sport/outside play, music, as we are a family of keen musicians, but still academically stretching enough to prepare children to thrive at the top academic schools.

However, every school looks perfect in its marketing materials, and first hand experience is invaluable!

@Sampick we do really value a nurturing prep with a family feel. However, when you say the academics can feel a little lost, have you felt this has impacted progression in areas like phonics and reading in the younger years, or literacy, comprehension and maths as they get older?

As a family, we are keen to keep the academics, as far as possible, in school, so that we can protect family time together. I would much rather share in the joys of autumnal art projects than feel I have to drill my child in phonics or numeracy in the evenings! We have friends at a TW prep who end up doing this, as it seems the children have lots of fun at school, but the knock on is that a lot of the academic work ends up being done at home.

Do you feel children are prepared well enough at St Ronan’s to pursue whichever senior school route they would like, or does the academics occasionally feeling a little lost limit this?

I would love the DC to be able to go to open days and say, “Oh Mummy, I love this school, can I go here?” and for me to be able to say, “Yes, of course!” rather than, “Oh no, sorry, you aren’t quite there yet in terms of your maths,” etc. 😂

Could I ask roughly how old your children are - not specifics but whether they’re pre-prep or older? It’s just that, and I do mean this kindly, you seem to be hugely overthinking this. If you’re aiming for top seniors, you might have to do some extra at home. Plenty of prep school children are doing massive amounts of extra tutoring for grammars, and those aiming for eg Sevenoaks will be often also be doing extra out of school. I would just trust your instinct on where your child will be happy first and foremost. No school can be entirely responsible for everything - if e.g. maths needs some work, you do extra at home. I wouldn’t throw away a house you like because you’re not 100% certain if e.g. Saint Ronan’s will get your child into the right schools. Are you 100% certain that Hilden Grange will?

Also, I think there are really only a handful of senior schools now who are still highly competitive, and I’m not sure Tonbridge is one of them. It’s an excellent school, but I know several very solid, but also quite middle of the road, boys who have got places there in the last couple of years. The independent sector is not, on whole, turning people away if they can help it. The fact they’ve announced they’re going to be taking girls in the sixth form is a good sign that they’re needing a bigger pool of pupils to fish in.

@throwaway24 Thank you, this is reassuring on Tonbridge. It’s just a worry, as we know of quite a few others who have been turned down after applying from a TW prep (it has caused huge upset, as they wanted to be day pupils and now feel forced into boarding). It’s reassuring to know this isn’t the case at St Ronan’s. It doesn’t seem to be an issue in the Tonbridge preps either; for the very few who didn’t secure a place from HG, it hasn’t been a surprise, and there was generally a specific learning need that needed to be supported.

We have quite a large age gap of 4–5 years, so one is at the very start of pre-prep and one is at the end of prep. I think that’s part of where the pressure comes from in terms of making the right call for both children and the family as a whole, particularly when it comes to a long-term home. For the eldest, we would need to decide whether Year 7 or Year 9 entry was the best fit for secondary, and then make a call on whether we move them for prep or just hang in there with a long drive for a while and move only the youngest.

However, as awful as it sounds, one of the big pluses of a 13+ school is the easier logistics for another two years, but that needs to be weighed against the disruptive effect of moving. I would say the odds of them getting into our main contenders for the eldest are pretty high; our youngest is a boy, so if the goal was Tonbridge, almost 100%, as it’s a big feeder school. Sevenoaks is also pretty high odds, and who knows on Eton (my husband is more keen on this than I am), but they only need to get into one, as they’re all excellent!

Tutoring in Year 5 ahead of admissions, whether with a tutor or a parent, is fine, but friends from Holmewood who are going to Mathnasium and hiring English tutors to catch up on English in Year 2? Definitely not! I think a good prep generally avoids this from happening. I don’t want some long, drawn-out tutoring campaign; I would like high-quality teaching in the classroom.

It seems from what I am reading that St Ronan’s would keep most, or at least one, of those school options on the table for a solid, if more middling, candidate. To avoid sounding really old, but in the good old days, prep was a blast, but we all knew how to knuckle down for CE. The friends we know who rave about St Ronan’s went there, but that was several decades ago!

In an ideal world we would have moved a year or two ago, but it has been incredibly hard finding the right house.