Vinehall Marlborough vs. Dulwich Cranbrook

[user1469825393]

Hi all, due to the recent merger bringing MHS to the Vinehall site in Robertsbridge and a subsequent journey increase, we are considering Dulwich Cranbrook for our children. We know it has the reputation of being pushy and walking around, it can feel a bit 'perfect'. I really want the joy of childhood to be celebrated, and there to be plenty of silliness / muddiness and imperfection, while they learn. Could anyone give me insight? Vinehall MHS isn't out of the question, but it will be over 20 mins to get there vs. Dulwich, which is very near us. Preparation for Cranbrook is also important, and we are unsure whether Marlborough House Vinehall will provide sufficient help given they are now out of catchment. We loved Marlborough - nurturing, relaxed and fun - with the ability to focus on the individual and figure out and celebrate each unique child (Saint Ronans not an option, before that's raised!)

If getting into Cranbrook is very important and you want outside help with it, get a good tutor who knows what they're doing. The prep schools don't properly prepare for the 11+ They'll do some reasoning as part of the ISEB Pre-Test prep, but not specifically for the 11 plus - I'm fairly sure they're not even allowed to?

We really didn't get on with Dulwich having viewed it more than once. It just seems to have no heart or soul at all. I know that sounds trite, but it just left us cold. That'll be subjective though. Also the senior part of the school is so new, and a bit empty and under populated at the moment.

Thank you for that information. Do you know much about Vinehall?

I am an ex Vinehall parent with MHS friends so do hear about both schools. Firstly so sorry about the upheaval, it sounds all very stressful for all concerned, yet a positive move at the same time. No one wants to see schools close so hopefully this is a good compromise for both.
From my experience of Vinehall it is exactly as you describe MHS to be; nurturing, relaxed and fun. The staff all fully understand the children and work hard to find and promote their areas of interest. The Headmaster is very clear in his opinion that children should be allowed to children (watch his welcome video on their website, what he says is exactly how we found the school to be) and there is a strong focus on outdoor play and learning, even in the older years. There is pressure when it is needed/required, academic results are excellent, and great support for those that perhaps struggle more. They do lose some children to grammar (not just Cranbrook) at the end of year 6, though obviously fewer than MHS due to catchment. As far as I am aware, they have good success with 11+ entry however this is probably supplemented by external tutoring as pp mentioned and as is the norm.
Our children were extremely happy there, the facilities are excellent; it must be said that it prepared them very well for their next schools. As far as how it compares with MHS, I would say they are similar schools with a similar ethos. Its defintely worth considering!

That is so helpful, thank you. I am seeing Vinehall soon. The challenge is, it has become a 25 min trip vs 5 to Dulwich. I work full time, and fear the pressure it puts on me to get the kids ready, home for dinner etc. it’s so hard to know what to prioritise. I’m trying to see Dulwich with fresh eyes (inevitably we’ve all had confirmation bias for MHS this last year). It would be great to hear from parents or Dulwich too… is individualism celebrated? Is childhood celebrated? Would a less academic or sporty child feel less than in any way? I simply don’t know…

As I understand it, they'll be running buses on loads of routes to make it easier for people like you. I don't know Vinehall very well, but my gut feeling is it's more closely aligned with MHS's outlook and values than Dulwich which, to me, has always felt a bit corporate and lacking in genuine joy and fun.

Thank you, I’m just not sure how I feel about buses for young children - and then how also can I be a really present parent for matches etc without really feeling the pressure. It’s a head and heart thing at the moment, but I’m sure Dulwich must also have its supporters and strengths.

Are you already at MHS? If so, personally I'd just make the move with the school for the first year and if it's not working, then reconsider Dulwich. On the basis that either means a "new" school, the new merged school will at least be a lot more familiar with a lot of the same teachers and children. If you're not already at MHS but rather due to start next September, I can see that's might be a more difficult decision.

Yes we’re at MHS with very young children. We really want to be all in rather than risk 3 schools in as many years, and make (as much as one can) the right decision from the beginning.

That's a shame about Saint Ronan's not being an option (former parent there) it's definitely fun and relaxed. I only know Dulwich from being there on match days and from hearing things from my DC and their feeling was that they were a bit too competitive....the site and facilities are fantastic though (at both Vinehall and Dulwich). I was really sorry to hear about Marlborough, such a shame to lose such a lovely school - we did like going to matches there.

Everyone I know says the same about Dulwich. Equally I know a few people who didnt like St Ronans. It would be boring if we were all the same! We actually drive about 45 mins in the opposite direction for another prep school - it's a long way but it's definitely do-able.

The sad thing in all of this is, while I’ve heard quite firm and negative opinions of Dulwich, and mixed views on SR, I’ve never heard a bad word ever on MHS from current parents.

With the greatest of respect to all the other local preps, and as a current parent, I cant understand why anyone considering preps in the area would not choose Saint Ronan's above all others. You have one of the UK's top prep schools on your doorstep and yet Dulwich and (previously) MHS still get considered. One can see the attraction of Dulwich or MHS if Cranbrook or TW grammars are your aim, but for those aiming for the more competitive senior day and boarding schools, they simply cannot compare.

Everyone's different though. Lots of people don't want a prep school of over 400 pupils, and lots of people find the 'best prep according to Tatler' thing quite off-putting 🤷‍♀️ Happily we live in an area with lots of choice!

Yes and I think you answered your own question. One of the reasons St R originally put us off is it’s exclusively private mentality. We need to keep grammar on the cards, and that attitude came with other implications in terms of cohert / awareness of modern realities etc

Completely understood. Ah... the old 'Tatler' jibe, fuelled by misinformation and resentment, and six years out of date. Perhaps the TES 'prep school of the year' is more to your liking and more credible? My advice, don't believe one's own perception of any school, arrange a visit and get to know and quiz other current parents, who have direct experience. If we all believed the marketing and false perceptions, we'd be wondering why the Vinehall car park isn't full of Jaaaags. One to look up. Best of luck with your decision.

I have a few lovely friends who are Saint Ronan's parents, and we looked round it twice - I was only suggesting that different schools appeal to different people. You're being quite snippy.

But, seeing as you mentioned it - the Tatler thing isn't years out of date, there was a post on their social media a matter of weeks ago about it. There's nothing wrong with being Tatler's choice of a good prep school, I just said that some people are put off by it. Other people will love it, and that's great. Choice is good! Celebrate the differences instead of slagging the other schools off, perhaps?

We're not at any of these schools mentioned here but I know people- past and present - who have been. I've heard people not like the feel of Dulwich when looking round but nobody who goes there say anything bad. I've only heard good things about Claremont and Marlborough House. But with St R I've known two people have bad experiences although won't go into details. But suffice to say I definitely wouldn't say "I cant understand why anyone considering preps in the area would not choose Saint Ronan's" (it's also a bit rude). Each to their own.

Er...I didn't mention it, you did! But for clarity, I was referring only to SR winning Tatler 'prep school of the year' in 2018, not being shortlisted again subsequently. It's always strange, amusing even, when MHS or other parents bring that up, and cite it with negative connotations, whilst simultaneously posting on socials (and desperately marketing) every nomination or shortlist for an award under the sun, regardless of how small. It does smack of hypocrisy and the 'green eyed monster'. Many schools are proud to market major awards, its an endorsement that they are getting a lot right and/or that they have something unique to offer. However, the 'Brighton College' marketing style it 'aint', it's far more subtle. SR have never held 'Open Days' for example, like other local prep schools do, preferring to offer individual tours and meet the children and parents directly. In any case, the OP was enquiring about Dulwich and Vinehall and I don't want to hijack the thread. For what it's worth OP, my view is that you should go with Vinehall if independent senior schools are more your target or Dulwich if either Cranbrook or TW grammars are your preferred senior school choice. Best of luck.

Thank you all. Are there any current Dulwich parents (beyond e.g. reception) who could give their thoughts? I just want to know that individuality is celebrated, and that children are allowed to be children; that my children will be (yes, pushed when necessary) but fundamentally happy, whatever their academic level, and unique interests.

@user1469825393 there are about 20/25% that go to Cranbrook now from SR, which is higher than the past and probably will increase further this year given that Cranbrook have, rightfully in my opinion, now focused their intake on 11 rather than 13.

The irony of this whole thing is that the beloved and hugely popular Head of Vinehall is being moved to one side and replaced in order to accommodate the merger. The VH community, incl. staff, parents, alumni, the children and wider community are all up in arms / devastated. What a sad and short sighted decision. 😞

I’m not sure I understand the irony, but for the VH parents ‘up in arms’ I’d gently suggest they reflect on the fact that your school remains on the same site you originally choose, and your distance to that site hasn’t changed. Without at least taking our Head across (and Mr Newton is also much loved and respected, with huge experience of mergers)… what exactly is left of MHS? With respect, between the two schools, VH is wildly less disrupted. It has increased my journey to the school to over 30 mins each way, disconnecting it from my local community and ultimately, forcing me to move my children away. Keeping the MHS headship, given the disproportionate impact on our children, and given we are the greatest flight risk (you need us to come across for the merger to work) hardly seems short sighted and sad - its the very least that could be done.

"Devastated" is a bit over the top. Like PP said, the upheaval to the MHS community is far greater overall, and the only way it'll be a success is if everyone gets behind it.

following this with great interest! We wanted to see MH and Vinehall but very put off by the merger and changes/moving building. Also keen to hear from DC current parents. We would be looking at TW Grammar.. I wouldn't consider SR as have heard it's very cliquey (teachers, parents and kids!!)

Also how do MHS feel about the merger? Will they be moving their kids on? If so, where I wonder???