Ofsted outstanding vs independent. Any views?

[Penthesileia]

I've just discovered that the primary school in the village to which we are moving has been rated as oustanding in its last Ofsted report. It scored "1" in all but 2 categories (in which it scored "2" both times).

My DH is very determined that we should send our DD to an independent prep school.

I am, or was, reasonably unfussed about his determination. We can "afford" the fees, although it will mean that we can't do a lot of things (but we're not doing them now, because of high childcare costs, so life wouldn't change, from that p.o.v.); and in some ways the school he/we chose is very convenient, as it is very near his place of work, etc.

However, part of me was always a bit about independent prep. I can see the point, or value, of independent secondary schools, but I struggle a bit to see where the money goes at junior level. This school offers subjects which are not available at any state school but we could easily pay for tuition in them, if that is what he most wants.

I briefly pointed out that the primary school is "oustanding", but he dismissed it immediately and without discussion.

I'd really like to hear some views on this situation and, perhaps, to acquire a few good arguments as to why he should at least consider the local school.

TIA!

Maybe your hubby wants your child,and ultimately yourselves, to mix with richer folk? Maybe it's nothing to do with the quality of the school. I expect if you asked him directly he might blow a gasket.

Has he looked around the state school? I presume the village school is more local than the prep school. Its very important for your dd to have local friends and mix with the local community at that age IMO. Also if you are moving to the area it will be a good way for you to meet people.

I agree with you that the independent will probably have less 'added value' at KS1 and 2 levels. Save your money for secondary where you might need it!

Well for us - class size was the issue. 17 in pre-prep and 30 in local village primary.

Is that a factor for him perhaps?

Malaleuca - believe it or not, but it isn't straightforward snobbishness or social climbing; he is genuinely not "classist" in that way (you'd have to meet my DH to believe that though, I expect). It is all about educational elitism, however. He is not British, and is very convinced that the education (including these particular subjects, as I mentioned) offered by the independent school is superior. I don't know how I can convince him otherwise, and he is suspicious of the Ofsted rating system, etc., anyway.

pinkteddy - yes, the friendship/community aspect is important, IMO. I shall certainly put that down on the list as one of the most pertinent arguments for the village school. Also, you're right, if he does want independent education for DD, we should save up for the more expensive secondary side of things.

traceybath - not sure. That is certainly a consideration. Was/is your local primary considered "outstanding", nevertheless? Was that a factor at all in your decision?

I wouldn't assume Ofsted's idea of Outstanding is the same as yours - go see both schools and then have a discussion with each other.

livingontheedge - yes, I think that is his suspicion. But I am concerned that I won't even be able to convince him to look round the village school!

Have you looked at the different value added scores for the schools?

We live in a village with two outstanding schools - both infant and junior were awarded this last year.

We send to our children to local prep schools though because having experienced the teaching, we felt the standard wasn't what we expected.

The junior school in particular has very very variable teachers and wasn't actually assessed on its teaching during the outstanding inspection - the school had a 'Hobbies Day' with no lessons when it was inspected so how could they be evaluated.

It's nothing to do with 'wanting to mix with richer folk' it's about finding the right school environment for my dcs.

They are involved in Scouting in the village so make plenty of friends through that.

stripeyknickers - do you have any idea how I might find that information? I have looked on the independent school website, but can find no mention of it. The Osted report for the village primary doesn't seem to include this info. either.

How did you experience the teaching, weblette? Did the schools allow you to sit in on classes?

No our children were at the infant school, having visited the junior school and spoken to a lot of friends we based our decision on that.

The independent school's inspection report, amongst other factors, suggests that teaching is "good", and curricular aspects are "outstanding" (hence DH's interest).

Ah, I see. Thanks for answering, weblette.

And thanks to everyone else for their posts, too.

BBC have league tables for state schools, its the CVA score.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/08/school_tables/primary_schools/html/agg_919.stm

Above link is just Herts but other counties are there somewhere.

Not sure about private schools, you may have to ask them what their score is. If they don't do SATS they may not have a score. But if they are any good they should have some way of measuring progress I'd have thought. If they don't measure progress then I wouldn't send my kid there.

Well ds is an august born boy so a small class size was the top priority. I felt 30 was just too big.

He's now in yr1 and the school is fab and I am very glad we chose it and can afford it.

Regarding local friends - many children who live locally to us go to the prep school.

Definitely worth looking at both though - for me I decided on which school 'felt' the better fit pretty quickly.

Thank you, stripey. I shall try to get my head round what all those lines mean.

Hi Lenin! Yes, travel is a consideration, although, as I said, my DH works very close to the indie school, so it's not necessarily an issue. The fees and other stuff, well...

But will DH be able to pick up at 3:30, or will he still be at work?

Will he definitely be working there for the next 8+ years?

I wouldn't go by Ofsted reports; or not as more than a rough guide. Private schools vary considerably, from the excellent to the mediocre. The only sensible thing is for both of you to visit both -on normal working days. It is a bit silly to spend money on something if it turns out to be inferior to the free version! You can't tell unless you look.

Probably, but the school also offers after-school activities (up to 6pm), so that's convenient (though a long day for the students).

Yes, unless the unthinkable happens, he will be working there til retirement.

Actually, thinking about it, in some senses, as we both WOH (in different cities), the village school is less convenient vis-à-vis picking up, etc.

My situation was identical. We have ended up, making some sacrifices elsewhere, sending them to independent prep, a decision I will truly never regret. The primary is wonderful, don't get me wrong, but the school we have chosen suits both our (very different) children, the school really does examine and handle the individual needs of each and every child (classes of 12 and 14 help). Whereas I am just not quite sure the primary would have catered for DS quite so well.

What you say about seeing the point in independent senior, but not so sure about junior - the primary will not gear your children towards common entrance, when I went round my local primary it was one of my questions "what if I want my children want to do CE?" and the headmistress just said "errrr..." and in effect said "that would be down to you". So that sealed it for me. I may send them to the excellent state High School in fact as it turns out, but this way I see have more options for them leaving independent prep. Otherwise they would need specialist tutoring to get through CE for the last 2 or 3 years of primary. This way, they get that tutoring as part of their mainstream education.

piscesmoon - you are clearly right. And I am Scottish, so would resent enormously paying for something I didn't need to! I just have to find a way to persuade DH to consider the village school.

anonymousbird - good point about graduation to secondary.

Thanks all.

I am currently sitting in the library of a well respected medical schiool watching 17 year olds to dopen day tours. What I see is that those who are predicted the 4/5 As to come here come from a range of social backgrounds and school types.

I don't understand why anyone would pay unless the alternative was so horrendous it doesn't bear thinking of. Specifially to your question, however, to achieve an outstanding your local school will be having to meet the needs of EVERY child there which suggests excellent teaching, creative differentiation and that every child is allowed to learn. This is a bigger ask for a primary with mixed intake than an independent who can select the child they want and teach to "type", and thus would, in my view, make it better.

By the by, to weblette, OFSTED judge learning not teaching so Hobbies Day was obviously seen to be an excellent learning opportunity.