Ofsted outstanding vs independent. Any views?

[Penthesileia]

I've just discovered that the primary school in the village to which we are moving has been rated as oustanding in its last Ofsted report. It scored "1" in all but 2 categories (in which it scored "2" both times).

My DH is very determined that we should send our DD to an independent prep school.

I am, or was, reasonably unfussed about his determination. We can "afford" the fees, although it will mean that we can't do a lot of things (but we're not doing them now, because of high childcare costs, so life wouldn't change, from that p.o.v.); and in some ways the school he/we chose is very convenient, as it is very near his place of work, etc.

However, part of me was always a bit about independent prep. I can see the point, or value, of independent secondary schools, but I struggle a bit to see where the money goes at junior level. This school offers subjects which are not available at any state school but we could easily pay for tuition in them, if that is what he most wants.

I briefly pointed out that the primary school is "oustanding", but he dismissed it immediately and without discussion.

I'd really like to hear some views on this situation and, perhaps, to acquire a few good arguments as to why he should at least consider the local school.

TIA!

"Bonsoir, you are incorrect about grammar schools following a different curriculum to a comprehensive; they all have to follow the Nat. Curric."

Following the NC within subjects is one matter; offering a broader range of subjects is another, and grammar schools are typically more traditional than comprehensives in the range of languages and full sciences on offer. And grammar schools in some places offer the IB and other alternatives.

Also beware the common fallacy that the examination syllabus is synonymous with the curriculum.

But in our area, all the comps. offer three sciences, lots of modern languages (and latin), extra maths (the old AO) and IB.

We don't have grammar schools, just comprehensives and some rather unambitious private schools.

And, when we did live a grammar school area, the grammar schools were poor - it was almost like everyone strived to pass the 11+ and - once they'd got there - gave up! (parents and children alike)

I personally don't think that a collection of Cs at GCSE is good for a grammar school.

Which all goes to show that you have to look around a school to assess its worth - you can't make assumptions about anything.

We are able (unlike Oxbridge for obvious reasons) to accept that - in a given school - it doesn't matter how much brains or motivation you have, you can't get 3 As. In fact, 3 Bs or less, etc., might be a phenomenal achievement depending on your background. Oxbridge just can't adjust for that.

I am curious about this. Is it the case that Oxford colleges no longer offer unconditional or matriculation offers where the candidate only needs to get two Es? I am not sure about Cambridge but I thought this was standard practice at Oxford? It certainly was in the recent past (my brother was offered this not too long ago).

I would second the thoughts of those who say that it is better to spend money on a secondary education and extra-curricular activities (whether academic or just fun) at primary level, if you have a good state primary nearby.

Hi, Horton,

When I was applying to Oxford, I was told that I would get a 2-E offer if I took the Oxford entrance exams and did well in those, but if I applied on the basis of interview only, or interview and in-college written assessment, then the offer would be conditional upon my A-level results. That was the system when I went there, which is a bit longer ago now than I care to think. Maybe these days, with A-level exams often being taken in modules over the course of two years, rather than at the end of a two year course, it is possible to give unconditional offers to more people on the basis that the university will already have a good idea of the likely end exam result.

Thanks, rabbit. Yes, I also went there many years ago and that's what I remembered. It seemed to be the same a few years back when my (MUCH younger) brother and sister applied. I was just thinking that that sort of system gives them a huge opportunity to offer people with huge potential but lower achievement easier offers than other universities do, and was surprised that penth seemed to think the opposite was the case. But possibly, now I think about it, she was talking about finding it hard to keep up if your education up to university hasn't been all it should have been.

Hello Penth I was thinking about you today as I had lunch at my children's school. I don't know what it's like in a village, but I do think a family's social horizons shrink a bit when the first kid goes to school. I'd love to see more of my old friends but see much more of (the very lovely) parents of kids at school. I think you will miss out on a lot of local life if you don't go to the school, which may not be an issue for you. Consciously or not, the people who send their kids to the primary may feel resentful towards you as they may feel that you think that the school's "not good enough" for your children. I know that's not right, but I sometimes feel it myself towards those who don't bother visiting our state school and I'm sure that's even more so if it's outstanding and in a small community.

When I was at Oxford, a while ago and as a graduate (before new A'levels, but after the demise of the entrance exam), no one got into my college with less than B's (unless mature and had done another route), and it was discussed if it was less than 3 or 4 A's. But then there is Oxford and Oxford. But 2 E's is unlikely unless you have something else to sell yourself.

My tutor preferred State school pupils saying if they had 3 A's they were bright, if a priavate school pupil had 3 A's he wasn't sure if they were bright or just well spoonfed taught.

A couple of DS1's friends are in possession of matriculation offers from Cambridge. In all fairness though, by the time they went to their interviews they were already in possession of their results in their STEP papers (for Maths) and I suspect they're more challenging than A2 modules.

The 2 E offer is a bit of a red herring. It's generally offered because the student has shown exceptional ability via another (not necessarily, but usually) academic channel (e.g. STEP, entrance paper). It's quite rare nowadays for people with 2 E offers actually to get 2 Es... They generally do as well as everyone else...

Builde's point about "brains and motivation" being enough still wouldn't work in the cases I'm talking about. If a student comes from an inadequate school or difficult background, it is vanishingly unlikely (unless they are one of those exceptionally rare, extremely gifted talents), that they could pass STEP well enough, or get through an entrance exam in order to be given a 2 E offer.

I'm talking about those students who are as bright as those from more advantaged backgrounds and who don't get into Oxbridge, while the more advantaged do, because the structural disadvantage holds them back (at least at undergraduate level).

Polly - I take your points. And a lady who I've met, and with whose DD my DD plays occasionally, has already asked me if DD will be going to the local school... I am a bit and mumble a bit when she asks...

"Consciously or not, the people who send their kids to the primary may feel resentful towards you as they may feel that you think that the school's "not good enough" for your children. " That was definitely the case with me. More for me than my parents though.

Arrrrgggghhhhhhh.

Sorry - I meant the children who lived locally felt a bit sniffy because I went away to school, I didn't feel sniffy because they did . But I was an oversensitive flower tbh and very shy. It must depend on the child I guess.

Mind you, I was teased for being posh at my local state village primary. Only in the last year, when the 11-plus loomed, though, and the teachers unsubtly divided us into tables of those expected to pass, those expected to fail, and those who might scrape a pass if they got a bit of extra attention... Being expected to pass obviously made me unacceptably posh.

Agree about the STEP papers/entrance exams being a red herring - no state school applicant is going to want to put themselves in for special extra exams that private school applicants will no doubt have had some extra coaching in, unless they are extremely confident, have a very supportive school and probably also a family background of entrance into good universities. And such candidates are going to get all As at A-level anyway (and 1s in their STEP papers).

What are these STEP papers of which you speak?

I never felt different to the other children in my village. But then, we all went to lots of different schools - the village school and a wide variety of other local schools, either private or Catholic, and we all got together at weekends, in the evenings and during holidays for Brownies/ballet/drama/tennis etc.

Obviously, if your DD were to be the only child in the village sent out of village to a private school, it might be more isolating.