Ofsted outstanding vs independent. Any views?

[Penthesileia]

I've just discovered that the primary school in the village to which we are moving has been rated as oustanding in its last Ofsted report. It scored "1" in all but 2 categories (in which it scored "2" both times).

My DH is very determined that we should send our DD to an independent prep school.

I am, or was, reasonably unfussed about his determination. We can "afford" the fees, although it will mean that we can't do a lot of things (but we're not doing them now, because of high childcare costs, so life wouldn't change, from that p.o.v.); and in some ways the school he/we chose is very convenient, as it is very near his place of work, etc.

However, part of me was always a bit about independent prep. I can see the point, or value, of independent secondary schools, but I struggle a bit to see where the money goes at junior level. This school offers subjects which are not available at any state school but we could easily pay for tuition in them, if that is what he most wants.

I briefly pointed out that the primary school is "oustanding", but he dismissed it immediately and without discussion.

I'd really like to hear some views on this situation and, perhaps, to acquire a few good arguments as to why he should at least consider the local school.

TIA!

You should subject the independent prep school to the same level of scrutiny and potential criticism that is being directed at the local state school.

Ie, Will he have the same teacher for several years running as happens at some small schools; what if he doesn't get on with that teacher, or what if his potential friendship circle is quite small due to very small year groups? What happens at the prep school if your child has SN will they be understanding or supportive? Will he get a good rounded education especially if he turns out to be not academic? Do they hot-house ie, expect you to crack a whip and make him do a lot of homework and prep for secondary school entrance exams? What if he has behavioural problems he could be booted out at short notice and end up at the local school anyway; at least the local school has a legal obligation to do their damnedest to help sort out any social or behavioural problems, the prep school can just shrug their shoulders, wave him goodbye and demand full fees from you up until the end of the following term anyway.

I am about to send DS1 to a private secondary -- quite small so they have a limited choice of GCSE subjects. Something we'll have to re-assess as DS approaches Yrs10-11.

Thanks for your post, clemette.

I think I need to educate myself (and DH, somehow ) better about how Ofsted reaches its conclusions, etc..

Those are excellent questions, CantSupinate - thank you.

I honestly can never understand why anyone decides on school choices without having visited several times.
The onlything that matters arethe schools themselves and the families precise needs

We have an outstanding local primary but DD still went to the local prep for a whole host of reasons.

The alternative to private does not have to be horrendous. To say that just implies that otherwise people have no sensible reasons for choosing to pay. Which is simply nonsense

We looked at our local private primary for comparison to our state school. Six children in year 1, not all of whom were able to read by the end of the year (no special needs children in the whole of the infants/juniors).
Knowing how young children fall out, I actually wanted her to be in a school with bigger class sizes so she has lots of choice over who to play with at different times.

You just cannot decide on the basis of theory - you should look around both schools and assess the atmosphere in both, speak to the teachers, and decide on the basis of your knowledge of your own children, what they are like and what their specific needs are. Don't allow your dh to be unthinkingly prejudiced against a school he has never seen, within an education system he doesn't even understand.

Besides which, between the ages of 5 and 11, I think the most important aspect of school is the social side of things - learning to mix with all types of people, having a reasonably wide selection of children your age from amongst whom to find a soulmate, and gaining an enthusiasm for learning which will come in handy at secondary level, when formal learning gets serious. Local friends are also of colossal value to young children. Your dh is, to be honest, being quite offensive to make sweeping assumptions about state education in this country without even bothering to look around his local primary school. Where has he got this attitude from, if he has no experience of the reality?

Nothing beats going on a normal school working day and seeing it warts and all. Take a list of questions. Decide what you want for your DC first. What is a good school for one DC isn't necessarily a good school for another. Give the private school the same scrutiny. I am amazed at the amount of people on mumsnet complaining about schools-often they are complaining about private schools and I think 'why on earth are you paying for that?'!
Do not be fooled by glossy brochures-they are all 'selling' their school-state and private- they need bottoms on chairs for funding!

And say to your husband "This is a joint decision about our child. How dare you take that dictatorial attitude. We will go with open minds and look at both schools - then we will decide what is the best fit for our child, based on the data we have gathered and our impressions."

I'm not sure there's enough data there to decide. What sort of independent? Selective or not? Mixed or not? Profit making or not for profit?

My feeling is generally that if you want to pay for some part of your children's education but not all of it, I'd prefer to pay for primary rather than secondary. It's there that the foundations are laid.

You need to look-if I was paying I would pay for secondary not primary.

Agree with piscesmoon. A good state school lays the foundations extremely well, particularly if your child comes from a home environment where reading, talking, learning and sharing experiences are already enjoyed and encouraged.

Clemette, sorry if this sounds stroppy - I don't mean to be, but are you honestly saying that it's acceptable for a school to get an outstanding without a single 'normal' lesson being observed?

Sounds daft to me. Or is an indication of how arbitrary the Ofsted inspection system can be?

when i hear of kids sent to private primaries I always instinctivly think " why what is WRONG with the kid?"
hey bad but fgs why would a kid need to?

Lenin - I've emailed you!

Thanks everyone for your replies. Lots to think about and bring to the table.

I know the independent school in question well. A few of my friends send or have sent their children there, so it's not an unknown quantity. It is undoubtedly a nice school.

We don't, as yet, know the village school (we haven't moved). I am keen to look around when the right time comes, DH not, as I've said.

His attitude comes from being the product of a very selective, very academic (though state) education in a European country (admittedly 3 decades ago), and he wants something similar for DD, which is only possible in independent schools, and possibly grammar schools (of which there are none local, I believe).

Sorry, that description of DH's education gives the impression that I think state education in the UK cannot be very academic. I didn't mean that at all. It is the particular nature of the curriculum which is no longer available in the vast majority of state schools in the UK. Apologies for any misunderstanding.

weblette, OFSTED now is about the inspectors coming in to check the judgements of the senior management team. They can assess those judgements by talking to parents, children, looking at results and value added, seeing long, medium and short-term planning, and by observing the relationships between teachers and pupils.

Because educational theory no longer has it that there is an ideal lesson format for learning, hobbies day would have been seen as a vehicle for learning. It was obviously extremely well planned and curriculum based.
It would be this type of thing that gives me hope for the future of education - creative, imaginative, child-focussed, and obviously working (if the results weren't good, they wouldn't get outstanding...)

Look around the state alone if he just won't go. Then mull it over.

I really don't think Ofsted will tell you what you need to know.

Marsha - I may have to! Hopefully it won't come to that. He is stubborn, my DH, but not entirely insensible to reason...

pagwatch - I would not make the decision without visiting, etc. many times. Of course!

I just wanted to seek out some opinions, ideas, etc., so that I can start working on my DH!

DD is only 2! This has only become an issue because we will have to put her name down for the independent school now in order to be considered for a place...

Yes put her name on the list. Then enjoy having years to finally decide.

I think it's fine to be strident btw. I am too. .

But you are curious, it makes sense to check both. If you go home with lots of praise for either I am sure it would sway your dh. You might vastly prefer the independent (or not!).

Clemette, if it were the case that the school had that sort of approach to all of its learning, rather than just that one particular day, I really feel it would have warranted such an accolade.

Unfortunately the Hobbies thing is so atypical based on the experience of a wide range of parents I know there. Had the school had that approach on a wider basis I certainly would have sent my children there.

It surprised a number of parents with children there when the result came through.

Reading between the lines, your dh wants a traditional education, less of this learning through play that is the modern way?

But what if she turns out to be the kind of child who needs that and who does not thrive in the academic private school? He sounds like he has quite set ideas and needs to open his eyes a little.

Can't he spare a morning just to go and see the village school? It might well be not what he wants but what if it just happened to be nicer than he thought?

Penthesileia - did your dh really have such a highly selective, academic education from the age of 5 or 6? Or is he remembering his secondary education???? I really do not see the benefit of testing and selecting children at the age of 6 for a highly academic education, which may not be at all suited to their personality, needs or interests. There's nothing better guaranteed to turn some children off learning than a highly pressurised, academic environment from day one. Go for the selective, academic education later on in your daughter's school career, if by then you can see that it will suit her and that it is what she wants for herself. You won't have excluded yourself from this option by starting out in the state sector - if, that is, your dd turns out to be bright enough and keen enough to merit a place in such a school. In my opinion, the only reason for opting for a more pressurised, academic education now is if you are secretly concerned that she might not turn out to be quite bright enough to get into a highly selective school later on without having had an awful lot help to achieve the place. And if that were the case, would she feel happy, self-confident and secure in such a school?

Excellent points, ireallyreally & rabbitstew. Thank you for taking the time to post.