Ofsted outstanding vs independent. Any views?

[Penthesileia]

I've just discovered that the primary school in the village to which we are moving has been rated as oustanding in its last Ofsted report. It scored "1" in all but 2 categories (in which it scored "2" both times).

My DH is very determined that we should send our DD to an independent prep school.

I am, or was, reasonably unfussed about his determination. We can "afford" the fees, although it will mean that we can't do a lot of things (but we're not doing them now, because of high childcare costs, so life wouldn't change, from that p.o.v.); and in some ways the school he/we chose is very convenient, as it is very near his place of work, etc.

However, part of me was always a bit about independent prep. I can see the point, or value, of independent secondary schools, but I struggle a bit to see where the money goes at junior level. This school offers subjects which are not available at any state school but we could easily pay for tuition in them, if that is what he most wants.

I briefly pointed out that the primary school is "oustanding", but he dismissed it immediately and without discussion.

I'd really like to hear some views on this situation and, perhaps, to acquire a few good arguments as to why he should at least consider the local school.

TIA!

Right, I get the picture that your DH wants academically selective and quite competitive.

In that case, the point I'd make in favour of going selective independent at primary level, is that the academic pace is faster and more intense. They end up a fair bit ahead of state school contemporaries. This means that joiners from state schools (of which there are a few at the DC's schools) end up having to go to learning support for a while to catch up.

But the advantage of going to the local primary is full social integration into the village - which sounds like an overwhelming plus.

But there is one more big question here which really worries me - and that is the fact that OP disagree on such a big decision.

If you somehow manage to convince DH to send DC to local school, and it is a normal school and sometimes makes mistakes - won't DH be very quick to blame you and the school and everything else? What if DC turns out not to be as academic as he is? He'll for sure blame the school for that as well.

What if you go to the prep school and they hot house your child and demand she spends an awful lot of time doing homework? Will you be happy with that? What if DC and you end up with no local friends?

While I personally think the best place for your DC is the local school I worry about the ongoing friction over this issue if one of you has to compromise.

Penthesileia - given that both you and your DH work FT, and that you have high standards for yourself, I suspect that it might be more comfortable for you to send your DD to a private prep where the teacher:pupil ratio is more favourable and you know that your DD is getting more attention - and, as Quattrocento so rightly points out, where the academic pace is faster.

I think that you have to consider the DC that you have, rather than the one you want. Is your DC suited to a faster academic pace? It wouldn't suit a lot of DCs.
I would still visit both with an open mind and look at them not just as schools, but specifically schools for your DC. Go with your gut feeling of which school you think your DC would thrive in.

Oops, apologies for me getting confused thinking OP had a DS and not a DD.

I love learning thru play. Can't believe that people diss it so readily. I am very it wasn't an option for DS2 in Yr1-2. Would have been so much better for him. Yeah so great now he can read well, but he hates school with a passion because the formal-sit-down style is so stifling for him. Not a good net outcome.

Penthesileia

Sure. once you visit the choice often becomes much clearer than you expect it to - even to intransigent DHs

Forlorn

So if the reason for a private primary isn't obvious to you then there must be 'something wrong with the kid'
Really?

Is that because you are not interested or because it is just easier to be a bit snide about the child in question?

It is pretty offensive that you are assuming that there is something wrong with my DD. Doubly so as the term 'something wrong with' doesn't resonate well, what with DS2 having severe special needs.

My dd goes to an ofsted "outstanding" local primary. The main problem I find with it is the class size. I think the school does brilliantly with the resources they have, but there are 30 children with different needs jostling for attention from the one teacher and TA. There are 3 classes of 30 in each year. My dd is quiet, shy and well behaved and I think gets largely ignored.

If I could justify the cost I would move her to our local all girls independent school with 15 in a class, however at the moment I'd rather save up some money and send her there for senior school. BTW I certainly wouldn't assume anything negative upon hearing about whatever school a child went to.

The benefits of going to the local school are that it is in walking distance and invariably we meet up with friends on the way to and from school so it is more sociable and inspires more community feeling. It'll be great when dd is older and can just pop round to friends houses easily after school, as no-one is far away.

I have friends who had a very sought after place at a different ofsted outstanding school who chose to send their child to independent pre-prep anyway. At the moment he does not appear to be any more academically advanced than my dd......

Bonsoir, DH and I both work full time and have VERY high expectations. We are happy that we deliberately rejected a lacklustre, academically more pacey school for DD, and chose a lively, vibrant, sociable and happy state primary (and a "satisfcatory" one according to OFSTED).
Once again it boils down to what your expectations of primary education are. Mine are that DD is happy, secure, interested and has the opportunity to be creative and excited as well as being challenged. It is also that she feels part of the local community, and doesn't have any sense that some people are "better" than others because of money.

Our village school is outstanding in all areas in it's ofsted report, it's a lovely welcoming school full of happy children who learn and achive well and very importantly the children want to be there.
Also in my area there are large amounts of very good pre-prep, prep and public schools, these school also have allot to offer.
I can't aford to send my children to public school at this time and even if I could I wouldn't, I have one of the best schools in the country in my village, I am not the only person who feels like this, one family in our village moved all three of their children from a very very good prep school to the vi;llage school, they realised the older children were missing out on village life and wanted the youngest to maintain friendships she had made through early years socialising and pre-school. All three children have settled into the village school fantasticly and don't miss the prep school they attened. The oldest will go back off to public school in september but the family looked at all the schools, not just the public ones.

Penthesileia, one thing you haven't really mentioned is what your dd is like. Not that it is easy to know at such a young age, but you may have some inkling. It seems as if your dh is expecting that because he is highly academic, any offspring of his will be. Doesn't work that way ime. My own highly academic parents had two highly academic children, one who wasn't, and one who was in-between. I consider myself to be pretty academic: have one gifted child and one that really struggles with anything academic and probably always will do.

So the first thing I think you should do is to take good look at the child and ask yourself "what kind of learning environment would be best for her?" Then visit both schools and think about which is the most likely to provide that learning environment.

Sorry coming to this a bit late, but are you really considering making a decision worth £100k without looking at the free alternative? You must be immensely rich then. Can you imagine if there were two houses with that price difference and you didn't bother checking them both out?
I'd also say, generalising from those I know, that some men have a bit of a macho thing about paying for private education. It's a provider complex - they might doubt their ability to be a father in other ways so they compensate by telling themselves that through their hard work they're buying them the best education. Round us, it's always the fathers that insist on private education.
Thirdly, I'd always look at the cost of private education not as money but as what that money could buy eg having to work less hard, amazing holidays or sabbaticals, no debts at university, a deposit on a house when the kids grow up, the ability to support them in unpaid work or a long training etc. Then you might feel differently about the cost.
You might well decide that the private option is the better one but you really have to be sure that it is. Sometimes I think private education is like the most expensive, least researched insurance policy in the world...

we have taken DD out of an OFSTED "outstanding" school because it couldn't even begin to meet her needs (dyslexia/dyspraxia) due to strain on resources, classes of 30 kids and basically a very smug Headteacher who prefers to spend his budget on cosmetic touches around the school than TAs.

However, DS did very well at the same school as he has no special needs and is very bright.

So in many ways a lot will depend on how academic your DD turns out to be as it may be that she needs a different type of environment (like my DD) or alternatively that she thrives at the local school.

I had a highly academic and selective education in a comprehensive school; they do set within each year.

Many of us went on to Oxbridge; you really don't need to be in the independent sector to do well, as evidenced by the fact that over 50% of students at Cambridge went to state schools.

Many private preps are really quite mediocre and are not scrutinised as much as state schools. So - if they do sats in year 6 - their results are unlikely to be moderated.

And private preps can set a lot of unnecessary homework that you might feel spoil the joy of family life.

Penth, I feel your pain. We just turned down a place at a lovely and v academic without being too pushy girls' prep in favour of a place at the local Ofsted 'Outstanding' primary. Both are a very short walk from our house.

We went to a taster session today with DD and I am very clear Ofsted's use of the word Outstanding isn't in tune with my own understanding of the word.

During one of my visits to the prep school, I asked a girl in reception what she was making with the plastecine and she said she was making some Louise Bourgeoise figures, with all their legs and arms knotted together. [ They seem to spend most of their days putting on plays, performing little music concerts. It was truly lovely and would have suited DD down to the ground. However we also have a younger son (he will start school next Sept) and the girls' prep wouldn't take him. The boys' prep in our town is uninspiring and not walkable for us.

What I liked most about the prep school was that the girls were extremely kind and polite to each other, to staff and to visitors. At the state school this afternoon it was extremely chaotic and LOUD. Too loud man.

Are you likely to have another child? Would you be able to stretch to two sets of fees?

I definitely think it's more sensible to pay for secondary schooling if it's a toss up between that and primary. My two teenagers both went to a small village primary (which was really excellent and catered to all abilities) and they are now at a selective independent and doing well.

And for what it's worth, the parents at the local state are far more conspicuous consumery/over-achievy/pushy/Boden-y than the parents at my sons' independent.

Good luck.

"We went to a taster session today with DD and I am very clear Ofsted's use of the word Outstanding isn't in tune with my own understanding of the word."

Oh Sweeedes you make me feel better . Another country, another system, but I have been having a lot of misunderstandings with DD's school about definitions of the terms "objective" and "structure".

Our local village school is outstanding according to OFSTED. DD1 went for 6 weeks when we moved to the area and it was absolutely crap. But they did things the way OFSTED likes them done. The school we came from was just rated satisfactory, but its academic standards were higher, and it was hugely oversubscribed within catchment. But the head didn't sing to OFSTED's tune. Go and see the schools for yourself, check out the results, and get as much local opinion as possible.

lots of good advice on here - one thing I wanted to add is that a good friend of mine sent her lovely dd to a very well-known private school. She was not allowed to continue at 7 as she was not considered a 'good fit' for the school. Both parents are super bright but they think perhaps their daughter found it really tricky to be in such an academic environment. They have chosen another independent school but one known for being more relaxed.

I would really recommend visiting all schools near to you so you can choose what is truly right for your child - and not what is right for your partner.

newgirl the first school didn't begin with 'A', did it?

a 'H'

I am sure it happens a fair amount and perhaps even more so at the transfer to secondary - they have to keep the results up

We've had the same dilema, but gone for the little local state outstanding school. Both have their names down for a prep at 7 and according to both prep schools they'll be fine.

Not sure I can add much more to what has been said but we were in the same position a few years ago and opted for inde prep. Due to DD being made redundent we moved her to local state (oustanding) primary from Yr2. These are my findings:

1. The prep school facilities were fantastic. They had lots of extra curricular activities and from reception were able to do tennis and swimming during lesson time. Class sizes were small (14) and the school had great out of hours care (great for working parents). The downside was the long holidays (they break up this week for the summer hols!!), the fact that children were bused in from all over the county and more importantly quite dry teaching methods which didn't really excite my DD.

2. The local state school has large classes (3 class intake with 27 in each class)but all the children come from the (quite large) village. My DD has made some fabulous friends who she can see most evenings if she wants to. She goes to Brownies in the local church and now feels part of the local community. The teaching is fantastic in the state school - far more exciting and diverse than anything she experienced in the prep (which is classed as one of the top in the country!). We can also walk to school which is a big bonus.

I guess my conclusion would be that if you are looking for academic excellence (plus a happy child) I would probably go for the local school. If it doesn't work out you can always move your child.

Agree with everyone I always thought dd1 would go down the academic, prep school route as I did and thrived but dd1 is not me

Having looked at all the private schools round us and the "good" state primary near us that many of my neighbours shun as "rough", I was pretty convinced it was the right environment for dd, it seemed so much more vibrant and creative and at this age she is definitely not a sitting behind a desk type of child. .

We also discovered she has coordination difficulties which the school has tackled with gusto, I worry a private school would just have seen these as problematic.

I will probably move her to the private system when she's older y but I am very, very glad her first year of school wasn't hothoused in any way. You have to look at both schools and make the decision on what's right for your child's personality